Monday, October 15, 2007

Quack of the week: Christian Drapeau/Stem Enhance

  • We've neglected this Bayblab feature for some time now, but Kenny G (lab guru, not saxophonist) gave us a tip on this story.

    Christian Drapeau (M.Sc) is the chief science officer and co-holder of the US patent for StemEnhance, a proprietary blue-green algae (Aphanizomenon flos-aquae) extract used to 'mobilize stem cells'. The extract contains a "novel L-selectin ligand" that promotes the release of CD34+ stem cells from bone marrow as well as a polysaccharaide-enriched mystery extract called Migratose(tm) that "MAY support the migration of stem cells out of the blood into tissues" (emphasis mine).

    Nevermind the existing concerns about taking non-Spirulina blue-green algae extracts - how does the science look? Mr. Drapeau was an author on a paper describing the CD34+ mobilization (I'll admit that puts him ahead of many of the other of the quacks we discuss who don't submit data for peer review). Let's take a look at one figure that shows an increase of circulating CD34+ lymphocytes:

OK, the extract treatment shows an increase CD34+ cells. A whopping increase from 0.062% to 0.085% (which of course is billed as a 30% increase). Now take a look at the placebo treatment. No increase, just as they claim, but the initial percentage of circulating CD34+ cells is already as high as AFTER StemEnhance treatment. Can anything meaningful be taken from this result? If you continue to read the paper, you'll find that the increase is quite transient, peaking after 60 minutes but lasting no more than 2 hours and that the effect in one person on 16 different test days can vary wildly (from a 300% increase in CD34+ to a 4% decrease).

The product that this data is meant to support is StemEnhance, a miracle stem cell mobilizer that improves healing and maintains proper tissue and organ functioning in your body. A single, 30-serving (60 tablet) bottle costs $60 with a recommended dose of 2 capsules once or twice a day. But before shelling out up to $120 a month, consider the following:

1)Does StemEnhance actually mobilize stem cells as it claims? The only published data is poor at best, as discussed above.

2)Is there any scientific evidence that 'stem cell mobilization' offers any health benefit? Like most quackery, StemEnhance relies on anecdotal evidence and testamonials to support their claims.

3)Is there any evidence that IF stem cell mobilization offers a health benefit, the increase in circulating CD34+ claimed by StemEnhance is biologically relevant? 30% may seem like a lot, but what does that mean in absolute numbers? Is that 1000 cells? 100? Is that enough to make a difference?

4)What are potential long term or other potential outcomes of increased circulating stem cells? A recent paper discussed at Journal Club talks about bone marrow stem cells localizing to breast cancers and increase metastatic potential.

Don't just listen to me, though. Other StemEnhance criticism can be found at MLM watch and The Scientist.

On top of the dubious product claims, StemEnhance has another hallmark of potential scams: a multi-level marketing scheme. That's right, you too can distribute StemEnhance and become a block in the pyramid upon whose back others will profit. But don't just take StemEnhance to improve your OWN health, you can buy StemPets and StemEquine and have your animal friends reap the benefits as well. Me? I think I'll buy some for my duck. Quack, quack, quack.


Paul said...

You have named yourselves correctly when you say you are a "bunch of degenerate grad students"!
You have a lot of studying to do before you can pass judgement on this product or it's inventor.
Truth always goes through three phases before it it accepted for truth.
1. It's generally disbelieved or unheard of.
2. It's violently opposed.
3. It's accepted for what it is.

kamel said...

You have it wrong. It's Christian Drapeau and the scientists at StemEnhance that have to 'do more studying' to prove this product does what it claims and has any beneficial effects. This is typically done BEFORE asking people to shell out a significant amount of money for it or getting them to join zany pyramid-esque marketing schemes.

Perhaps you didn't read the content of my post. I did my studying. I read what little peer-reviewed science was out there about StemEnhance and found it lacking. I used a figure from their paper to illustrate that poing, but I can go more in depth if you like. Believe it or not, I'm a scientist-in-training. I hold an M.Sc. like Mr. Drapeau. And I know, like he must, that anecdotal and testimonial evidence aren't a replacement for rigorous scientific experimentation and peer-review.

Truth may go through 3 phases, but in my opinion, StemEnhance is far from it. You may not like the tone of my post, but what have I said that you feel is incorrect? It's one thing to claim that StemEnhance is a 'truth', but where's the evidence?

rob said...

I am violently opposed your position on StemEnhance. Unfortunately, I guess that means that you are right since your arguement must therefore be in the second stage of truthiness.

Bayman said...

For a minute you had me convinced - we are indeed degenerate grad students with a lot of studying to do. But once you broke out the three "phases of truth" you kind of lost me to say the least.

I think we all know there's only three phases that people should be concerned with when evaluating the safety and efficacy of any sort of drug, and those are the three carefully regulated phases of scientific clinical trials that are required for government approval.

Anonymous said...

Guys guys, you got it all wrong. Paul I also sell an improved quantum version of their product. It's called Amino-RX . If you convince 3 people to buy some, We'll give you one bottle free (value of $5000!!!). 100% of the poeple who've tried it, have never died. You'll get immortality or your money back, guaranteed.

lifeenhancingtec said...

Apparently you are not aware that there is a peer reviewed study published in the Cardiovascular Revascularization Medical Journal, Sept Issue.
Based on your comments you are saying this peer review is worthless?
And are you making a statement that this is a drug or in that category? It is not.
I hold an MS Degree also and I am about to do my dissertation to get my PHD. I had to stop working a JOB and my dissertation papers because my body had run down and I was unable to do much of anything. I was joining the drugged society. Having tried the product upon high recommendations of an MD who did research on this productI had great results and doing much, much better in just a few months. StemEnhance help my body do what it needed to do unlike the poor results caused by medications. So, believe what you want without having tried the product that is your choice. As for myself, I thank Christian Drapeau for giving me the chance to continue having a better quality of life. And as far as the MLM goes, you have just know idea.... because it isn't what you make it to be. Stick to what you know more about live the business world alone. Either we are all stupid and you are just so smart and above us all.

Anonymous said...

If you put out a crazy idea, it will be disbelieved and it will be violently opposed. Once your "truth" is made available to the public, for it to be accepted as truth, it must be verified, and backed up by independent study and explained by more than inconclusive results and anecdotal evidence. (lifeenhancetec, great story, so glad you're feeling better, sometimes hope and taking the time to focus on your health can have a great effect on your well-being)

Just because some wild and crazy ideas, like the world being round, are later proven to be true, doesn't mean that all wild and crazy ideas are true.

Bayblabbers: post some wild and crazy "truths" that were violently opposed and then disproven.

-Researcher of Truth and Logic

Bayman said...

lifeenhancingtec says,

"Apparently you are not aware that there is a peer reviewed study published in the Cardiovascular Revascularization Medical Journal, Sept Issue."

Obviously we are aware; that paper was cited in the post above. The paper in question showed a very modest and transient increase in circulating CD34+ cells following administration of the extract to healthy subjects. There was no evidence as to whether this has any impact, positive or negative, on patient health. Don't take my word for it, follow the link and read at least the abstract for yourself.

I'm sorry to hear that you found it tiring to work on your PhD. Grad school can be tough and I get pretty much feel tired all the time. My suggestion would be not to fall into the trap of thinking that any magical drug or "natural extract" is going to make life's trials and tribulations go away. Once you do, it's really easy for people to exploit your misfortunes and steal your money.

Bayman said...

Anonymous said,
"Bayblabbers: post some wild and crazy "truths" that were violently opposed and then disproven."

Good idea! I've been thinking about that one...the only question is where to begin...

Marilyn said...

Thanks for the warning about being exploited. However, I find that the drug companies and doctors exploit the public in many ways, and I won't go into that! With this product, I find, that is not the case!

All I can say is this. When I worked in the lab and I taught at the universities, if I had a question about someone's work, I made time to prove him right or wrong by redoing his experiments. You have access to what he used and the mice or animals to test the product in-vivo. Drapeau used mice and human volunteers. He did a double blind cross over study with people and you should know what that means! So do that!

As far as a significant increase 5% or more could be considered significant. As far as what the body would do with an increase of circulating stem cells, there should be enough articles and research out there about this topic. Many major hospitals and research centers are looking for paying volunteers to see how increasing the bodies' own stem cells may help a number of health issues.

If you don't believe in what adult stem cells can do, then why don't you guys prove that it is all a waste of everyone's time? And then come up with your own solutions on how you can improve the quality of life for people as they age!

In the meantime, read what I posted in The Scientist

All I can say is that at the beginning of this year I decided to take the product as a nutritional supplement. I am now a happily functioning person again and out and about. Last year I was very depressed and it was physically my worst year. Most of the doctors wasted my time and money. Drugs were their only answer and that did not work! My mother suffered a heart attack after taking Vioxx. Two people died in my family recently of misdiagnosis and wrong medication. My friend lost her eye sight after taking 12 days of a prescribed drug. So, should I continue the allopathic way?

I have done my own research and I have read all that I can and continue to do so, looking for something out there than can help. To me, this product did the trick, I can physically function again, and my lab results have shown a drastic change. The quality of my life is so much better! You call him a quack, but I call him a person who has made a difference in my life!

kamel said...

Thanks for the comment. I think you'll find if you read through other blog posts that we've also expressed qualms about exploitation by big pharma as well (see some of our discussions about Gardasil, for example). That's not really relevant to this issue, except that many of these miracle cures prey on people who are desperate or have lost faith in the medical establishment while offering no real benefit.

Having worked in a lab, I'm sure you can appreciate that time and resources just aren't there for someone to experimentally confirm or disprove every conclusion they find suspect, particularly if it lies outside the purview of our specific projects. (what would our supervisors say?!) Besides, as I've said before, the burden is not on us, it's on StemTech to prove that their product is effective. Even IF we accept that StemEnhance is effective at mobilizing CD34+ stem cells (the only data that's available), that says nothing about health benefits or effects. (as an aside, how is it that StemEnhance was being sold well before this study was published 'proving' its effectiveness?)

Saying he did a 'double blind crossover study' is all very nice, but you still have to look at the results and methodolgy. Is 15 people a reasonable sample size to demonstrate the effect? Is the effect real? (why, for example, is the placebo before treatment as rich in CD34+ cells as the StemEnhance sample *after* treatment?) Is the effect biologically significant? You say 5% could be considered significant, but that doesn't mean it always is. Would you consider 5 cents a significant increase in wealth when you have a dollar?

I'm glad you're feeling better, but I remain to be convinced that StemEnhance is the cause.

Marilyn said...


The product was released 2 years ago, after the patent was issued. The study is not a recent study, and since it is not a drug, I guess, these things can be done. That is something I am not wanting to get into. Besides, there has been similar products but not in the same concentration that has been around for years.

As far as I am concerned, I will never convince you nor should I. All I can say is that when I had many blood tests done over periods of years, and my body began to deteriorate, (without going into any medical diagnosis) that is one good way I can personally use data for comparison purposes. The only addition or change I made was the addition of StemEnhance and then I noticed some positive changes began to occur, unexpectedly. I was taking the product to help me with one health issue only, but surprisingly, other issues were addressed, as well.

I have many professional friends and family members that have seen the change. I have new blood results too, showing significant changes. What else can I attribute the changes too? I took the product for one purpose and the overall unexpected positive results to me was astounding!

Having also observed the changes that have occured with other friends and family, who have decided to try the product as well, I am convinced the product does what it says it does! And these people are much like me who will be very cautious, will investigate and observe.

From what I was told, StemTech Health will be coming out with some other studies soon. So you can wait and see how that comes out. But as for me, I can't wait.

Because I was home bound, I had time to do more research and have used Stempets on my animals too. They showed significant changes that even my veterinarian will concur.

By the way, I have a medical doctor watching over me and he is pleased with the results so far.

I am going to work with a University on a bioreactor to increase stem cells but even that won't prove what you are looking for....The benefits of an increase in CD34+. However, there are many, many articles now available that discusses how adult stem cells are, and have been beneficial to overall health. Are you going to call all the thousands of articles about the benefits of adult stem cells questionable?

Part of my participation with the university is to verify that by taking the product an increase in my stem cells does occur. (They have access to the Green Flourescent dye, Drapeau used.) And if it does, then all I can say is that my overall health improved and the product must have triggered my stem cells to multiply and proliferated, and in fact, travel to where it is most needed. From What Drapeau said, you should see the flourescent daughter cells in organs that needs them.

But, I will say this again.... for the last few years, I felt useless unable to do much and retired early from a teaching position I loved, specially the convenience of having access to labs..... and now, with the addition of a stem cell enhancer to my daily diet, I felt the positive transformation or change in my physical well being. I am able to get out and function again.... no accidents, no discomfort. It is a great feeling!

Here is a thought. If you have animals at home who have some health challenges, why not try the StemPets on them and see the results for yourself. But you do have to give it time, and of course, do the lab tests.... etc... and a biopsy if necessary as proof.

Anonymous said...

Hey guys, have any of you done any experiments or come up with any product that is worth looking at? Is it peer reviewed?

If not, what makes you an expert or one we should listen too?

Don't call anyone a quack unless you have proven yourselves worthy.

Marilyn said...

Kamel, this will be my last comment on this blog....

Let’s look back at some of your statements:
“15 subjects”? Yes, that is enough to show an increase in circulating stemcells. And with the double blind cross over study, those individuals given the product and those given the placebo were switched so that the subjects used were the same individuals and not another group of people. He is not talking about curing something which would require more subjects and time. And as you know from statistics, adding more subjects or people to the group does not mean any better results. It is not necessary!

The sample you showed of 1 of the subjects is not fair. You and I know that when we do experiments, the results are not always the same. Some respond well, others do not, especially when you deal with a live subject or specimen and experiments are done in-vivo. They may have a particular health issue we are not aware of that may cause the result to be different. Live specimens are not all the same, we can’t get exact duplicates not even with twins or triplets etc… there is some difference. The body will react differently even with drugs, we are not dealing with machines! Look at blood pressure, you can take it within 5 minutes or all through the day, and the results are different.

The comment you made with the emphasis on "MAY” support the migration of stem cells out of the blood into tissues" (emphasis Yours) is now the topic I would like to address.
“May “ is a cautious word. Drapeau is not pushing the product as a drug, and if there is an increase in Circulating Stem Cells, there are many studies, articles etc… of what stem cells are, and what it can do, that can support his claim. Due to the intrinsic characteristics of these cells, i.e., self-renewal and unlimited capacity for proliferation, it “May” help a particular organ or tissue. By the way, why are many countries doing those stem cell therapies; why are many hospitals here in the US asking for volunteers to do experimental therapies where they intend to increase stem cell proliferation? Could it be that there “maybe” a significant effect on several health issues, or a particular organ? If one can trigger the stem cells to be released, proliferate and migrate to an organ in need without an invasive surgery, would that not be better?

Your comment on” StemEnhance relies on anecdotal evidence and testimonials to support their claims”…. That is fine with me, too. If Drapeau wanted to make a claim for curing or fixing one thing and one thing only, the product would be considered a drug. If he is not claiming anything other than supporting ones own stemcell physiology, that gets the FDA off his back. Also, if stem cells do, in fact, become different cells of the body, then the results would address many issues of the body. Sometimes, the personal testimony of a person, especially one whom you know, or really trust, is more important to me than a claim written by drug companies. Drug companies have money and they can buy their research people, and doctors. (This is another topic, and I won’t go further)

Then your comment on significant increase…. “Would you consider 5 cents a significant increase in wealth when you have a dollar?” Yes, when you talk about a larger quantity as 5% of 100 or 5% of a million and so forth. By the way, how many cells do we have in the body, a heck of a lot more than a million? Yes a 5% to 30% increase in circulating stem cells is significant! If you can do one more thing you could not do before, then….. YES, that is significant! And if everyday, something little is improving, over time that becomes a significant change to ones over all health. You are young, and wait until you get older! You’ll be informed by your medical doctor that your medical issues are ….” part of getting older or aging…. But take this drug, and this, and this, and take this drug to counteract the side effects of that drug.” Wait and see, you are heading in that direction sooner or later!

I am working on helping a my dogs right now with StemPets, and any little positive change is enough to get me excited! It is the way you look at things!

Finally, I have another suggestion, since you can not repeat his experiment (as you said…..since it lies outside the purview of you specific projects)…. You can get the University to sponsor a child in High School that will do a Science Fair Project. My son worked with Piroxicam in High School. It was sponsored by the Science Fair Foundation and the University of Georgia. He spent 8 weeks on the campus, out of state. I, too, have worked with Middle school students on various other experiments when I wanted them to prove or disprove a hypothesis. You, in the universities have the lab and capability to get the materials, and most of all, you can get as many volunteers as you deem necessary. Just feed the college students a free breakfast for several days. You’ll have all the volunteers you need!

Anonymous said...

How much is stemenhance paying you to troll blogs and defend the product? If I'm to make descisions based on your opinions, i'd like to know if there is a conflict of interest issue. How do we know that you don't work in sales at stem enhance?

kamel said...

Anonymous says, "Hey guys, have any of you done any experiments or come up with any product that is worth looking at? Is it peer reviewed?"

Yes, we are grad student scientists who have published in peer-reviewed journals. No, I personally have not come up with a commercial product that is on the market.

There's a lot to reply to there, but since you say you're no longer commenting (and I presume that means no longer reading) I'll just stick to a few points.

Regarding the time-line - a patent issue is not a replacement for a peer reviewed study, and the study IS a recent study. Or at least it was only published in a peer-reviewed journal in the past couple of months. (if it's old news, why wasn't it published sooner?)

It's not true that you can never convince me, but it's true you won't convince me without more solid evidence to your claims. As I said, I'm glad you're feeling better, but that could be placebo effect, or some concurrent lifestyle change, or any number of other factors. That's why anecdotal testamonial doesn't hold up as evidence.

Re: 15 subjects. First, I should correct myself. It was 12 subjects. Still, I'm not a statistician, so that was an honest question. I still don't know that 12 subjects offers enough power to make the claims they are, particularly with the inherent variability that you allude to later in your comment. I know from doing animal studies that many subjects are often needed do draw these kind of conclusions. Adding more subjects doesn't mean better results in terms of seeing what you want to see, but it does mean better results in terms of the power of the experiment and statistical significance.

You say the sample I showed is not fair. Well, you can hardly blame me for that. That was the only sample THEY provided in the paper. So if they have all these other patients that you presume show much clearer results, why pick the one that is ambiguous at best (and meaningless at worst)? My guess is either a) that sample is representative of their results - in which case my reservations remain valid, or b) that was the BEST result, in which case my reservations are valid. (the other option is that it was their *worst* result but why would they try to publish that?) That wasn't the only figure I had a problem with, I just used it as an example of the quality of the data.

Regarding the 5 cents comment, I was merely using that to illustrate that 5% is not always significant. Secondly, you're not being completely honest with the numbers. We're dealing with a percentage increase on a percentage. That is, the 30% increase we're talking about is a 30% increase of the 0.062% circulating CD34+ cells. What that *really* means is a 0.02% increase in circulating CD34+ cells. Still impressed? Still biologically relevant?

I'll tell you what: I seem to be demanding scientific evidence that StemEnhance pushers think is unreasonable, and you and others seem to think that I should take it upon myself to do the experiments. Why don't you send us a few capsules of StemEnhance and/or StemPets and I'll let you know what we figure out in a few weeks.

john said...

I don't know about you guys but ive seen incredible things happening to people,i train pro boxers on this stuff,if i was the person who does not believe in this stuff do me a favour start taking it.

kamel said...

Do you train your boxers in a controlled setting using only StemEnhance? How do you know it's not some other aspect of your training regimen that is giving incredible effects? Or are you not treating all your clients equally and 'short-changing' some of them by not offering StemEnhance?

So why don't I do you a favour and start taking this stuff and see for myself?
a)I'm not a human guinea pig for StemEnhance
b)if I don't believe in this product or the company selling it, why on Earth would I ever use my own money to support them?

Oh, and I'm sure the irony is lost on you but the adjective you use to describe your results - incredible - stems from Latin meaning 'not believable'.

john said...

I do not train them in a controlled study,i also give this to two NHL hockey players who also noticed increased energy,focus.Ive been working with a product called e3 live go to its a fresh whole AFA in fresh form,put it this way 2000 stores sell this product in canada and all give testimonials of whats happening to there clients,i also give this to alot of natural doctors and conventional doctors all who all love it,some even do blood cell analysis to prove improvements even with people who are on hamburger diets.I will not go out of my way to make claims but i did go to school and studied wild medicinal foods and herbs and thats what this is.I also study chinese medicine which has lots of herbs which do the same thing they work on the bone marrow,in chinese medicine healing the bone marrow keeps you young and strong and removes the aging quickly thing.Algaes are the first life forms on the planet and without these my friend me and you do not exist and none of these other wonderful plants used for food and healing.Life is simple and if you follow the laws of nature you will be healthy and strong if you depend on modern medicine and Conventional doctors all i have to say good luck.Back to controlled studies i have 3 amazing stories with stemenhance,these people did nothing but eat the worse diet and all had positive healing stories to a point where you might not believe it.thanks

john said...

I do not train them in a controlled study,i also give this to two NHL hockey players who also noticed increased energy,focus.Ive been working with a product called e3 live go to its a fresh whole AFA in fresh form,put it this way 2000 stores sell this product in canada and all give testimonials of whats happening to there clients,i also give this to alot of natural doctors and conventional doctors all who all love it,some even do blood cell analysis to prove improvements even with people who are on hamburger diets.I will not go out of my way to make claims but i did go to school and studied wild medicinal foods and herbs and thats what this is.I also study chinese medicine which has lots of herbs which do the same thing they work on the bone marrow,in chinese medicine healing the bone marrow keeps you young and strong and removes the aging quickly thing.Algaes are the first life forms on the planet and without these my friend me and you do not exist and none of these other wonderful plants used for food and healing.Life is simple and if you follow the laws of nature you will be healthy and strong if you depend on modern medicine and Conventional doctors all i have to say good luck.Back to controlled studies i have 3 amazing stories with stemenhance,these people did nothing but eat the worse diet and all had positive healing stories to a point where you might not believe it.thanks

john said...

And karmel you have the right to form an opinion,and with all the terrible products out there i would be suspect of alot of the products on the market,but at the same time there are alot of great products on the market.What you think and other people think will always be different but who is right and wrong does not really matter what really matters is the person getting the results thats how i train my people and myself, are the results there.There are alot of studies done on the healing benefits of AFA,and im sure now there will be more done.Sure there is money being made out there on this but money is being made on everything,look at what MCdonalds is making and there just simply killing people,the drug companies well you know what there doing but people continue to buy them.Whats awesome about this is iam not saying your wrong about how you feel i simply respect your opinions on this because i see whats happening out there in the health industry,lots of crazy claims,this cures this this cures that.But being open to trying or researching is important,its all out there and being experienced with so many health products this is definetely one of the good ones out there.

Angellaferes said...

Within the last year I had 2 surgeries on my knees. I have taken Stem Tech for 7 months on the advice of a friend selling it. After 2 months of taking 2 capsules a day I felt no difference. I was then told to take more, like 4 a day. So I did. (My husband had invested the initial $500.00 for a box of them) but just couldnt get into network marketing. So considering it took about 4 months to get out of it, we continued to automatically pay and receive additional bottles by mail. I decided not to waste the stuff so I decided it couldnt hurt to take them. And it didnt hurt as far as I know although i recently had a pollup removed from my uturus. I'm not saying it caused that but such a miracle might help in prevention? My healing from the knee surgeries wasn't any faster, I still take 3 different blood pressure medications as a result of a heart attact 3 and a half years ago and pain killers for arthritis. Since August I have lost about 30 pounds but it was from hitting my rock bottom. A new attitude and a physical regime of swimming and walking and totally changing my eating habits. What I feel is Stem Tech relies soley on the power of positive thinking. Do people feel better? Or have they talked themselves into it? I will continue to take it because it is paid for. However, all it got us is out about $700.00 and hard feelings with a friend over it.

kamel said...

See, John, around here we believe in a thing called 'evidence-based medicine.' One problem with the pro-StemEnhance (and other pseudoscience that we've discussed on this blog) position is that it accepts 'people have been doing it forever' and anecdotal and testimonial statements as evidence. I don't know how many more times or ways the point can be made that they are not. Guess what: 50 million Elvis fans CAN be wrong.

The difference between your position and mine is that I demand scientific evidence while you do not. You, yourself, say that "with all the terrible products out there, I would be suspect of a lot of the products on the market." So how, then, to distinguish between your 'great' product sold in 2000 stores with all sorts of testimonials from the 'terrible' one also sold in thousands of stores with equal testimonials backing it up? By reviewing actual evidence. There may be some great products out there, but until they can produce convincing evidence of efficacy, unfortunately, they get thrown in the same pile. Call me a skeptic, or a doubting Thomas or whatever, but it seems a simple request of a product with such huge effects and miraculous results.

"B-but," you stammer, "there was a paper..." From what I can tell (and please point me to the others if I'm wrong), there has been exactly one peer reviewed paper that has tested StemEnhance's proprietary blend of snake oil. I read that paper and, as discussed in the parent post and some comments that followed, I find it unconvincing.

Now, assume for a moment, that I DID buy the argument in that paper that StemEnhance does elicit a more than trivial and transient increase in circulating CD34+ cells. That says NOTHING about potential health effects - good or bad - of taking that product, even in the short term.

You draw a comparison to McDonalds and the harm they do with their food and the money they make. McDonalds doesn't suggest a continuous, expensive diet of Big Macs, nor do they claim that such a diet will increase healthiness in any way. You, personally, have been judicious in avoiding making any specific claims about StemEnhance's action on the human body. However much they want to tiptoe or be vague about it do avoid facing the FDA, the product website *does* make statements leading people to believe they will be healthier - in some cases in specific ways. I believe these kind of claims need to be substantiated, otherwise, like other 'quacks' we've featured, you run the risk of preying on the desperate and credulous (which, of course, is great for the business model).

You also make allusions to the grand conspiracy of western medicine. In spite of the problems that exist with Big Pharma and contemporary medicine, I'm still going to put more weight on evidence-based medical advice from a trained professional over an infomercial pill-pusher who has a clear financial investment (it seems no small coincidence that the people who most vocally defend the product are ones who sell it).

Please, forgive me if I remain skeptical and forgive me if I continue to encourage others to do the same.

john said...

Actually there is lots of science and proven studies on the AFA,one of my doctor friends doctor hastings has found thousands of articles on this topic,dr.gabriel cousins and DR.Brian clement a doctor and scientist have a shit load of evidence on the AFA,i do not know about the stemenhance stuff because its a fairly new product that is derived by the AFA.So if your loking for evidence try university of Toronto,university of victoria and lots more.I actually went to school and studied all this stuff about cyanobacterias and become involved with my friends at e3live,i have worked with doctors and scientist who actually understand and see the nutritional benefits of AFA,you rely on science and guess what so do i, thats why i know some of the best in the world but you my friend rely on science which is great but most likely have no clue about natural health and how the body fuctions.Im involved with this AFA because i truely believe in this product and see what it has done to so many people,you live in Ottawa well why don't you walk into health food stores there and ask if AFAis one of there best sellers and you will see the response,once again results is what iam looking for you want science i will gather it and guess what when i come to ottawa lets meet and i will give you 4000 maybe 5000 pages from the best doctors,naturalpaths scientists.Oh ask jason spezza another ottawa senetor hockey player about AFA you will get a great answer.Oyea im not a pill pusher i simply help people you want my resume of the people i help including NBA,NHL and Pro boxing,and some of the world reknown doctors and scientists,you can still remain skeptical because you have the right to and im not questioning it,but without science you seem to not trust much,but if you do your homework on AFA you will find enough evidence to atleast take a look at it and understand it.Oyea the e3live is FDA approved and regulated as a organic aquatic plant,it is certified organic,heavily tested by some of the top toxologist in the world who are 3rd parties and have nothing to do with the company.

john said...

And with the AFA or e3 live they do not make claims because health canada does not allow claims to be made by food or they would fall under a drug or a natural health product NPN number,its basically a food with good amounts of vitamins,minerals,trace minerals,proteins,antioxidants,enzymes etc which you are allowed to claim which they do.With stemenhance being derived from AFA and knowing from my studies in natural nutrition and chinese medicine that algaes loke AFA,spirulina,phytoplankton etc are considered bone marrow nourishment and that these specific polysaccarides are needed for cell to cell communication,so yea when it comes to nourishment for the bone marrrow and other specific organs i would rather depend and listen to mother nature than to scientist always looking for evidence.

john said...

And with the AFA or e3 live they do not make claims because health canada does not allow claims to be made by food or they would fall under a drug or a natural health product NPN number,its basically a food with good amounts of vitamins,minerals,trace minerals,proteins,antioxidants,enzymes etc which you are allowed to claim which they do.With stemenhance being derived from AFA and knowing from my studies in natural nutrition and chinese medicine that algaes loke AFA,spirulina,phytoplankton etc are considered bone marrow nourishment and that these specific polysaccarides are needed for cell to cell communication,so yea when it comes to nourishment for the bone marrrow and other specific organs i would rather depend and listen to mother nature than to scientist always looking for evidence.

kamel said...

Thanks for your comment. It's always nice to hear alternative perspectives. The lack of efficacy nothwithstanding, you also highlight another concern with StemEnhance and other MLM sales schemes, which I mentioned briefly in the original post - users also become salespeople pushing the product themselves and it just reeks of pyramid scheme to me. Have you been able to get out of your original contract (or has it expired)?

Regarding your polyp, I certainly don't mean to imply that StemEnhance is actively harmful. My guess is that it's pretty benign stuff - my issue with products like this are the unsubstantiated claims of miraculous health improvements that lure in the desperate and credulous to make large amounts of money for what is probably a glorified vitamin supplement. Except in the case of StemEnhance it probably isn't even that as it seems to be a proprietary blend of L-selectin ligand and the "migratose" polysaccharide.

You're probably right, a lot of the proponents likely have talked themselves into it, or are vocal about the product because they don't want to take a loss on the 4 months supply they've originally bought in for.

kamel said...

I don't doubt that there are studies done on AFA (and keep in mind that my article was about a specific AFA product - StemEnhance) that show biological effect in vitro. There are even some done in vivo, like the one I quoted in the article that I thought was poor evidence for some of the reasons indicated. A search for "Aphanizomenon flos-aquae" (that's what AFA stands for) on pubmed comes up with 64 articles. NONE of them include any positive medical or health effects caused by acute or prolonged use in humans (or even animals!). When I ask you to provide them, you just tell me to look at UofT or UVic. How about some links to the literature. Like if I wanted to make the point that AFA supplements are potentially harmful I might put together a list like this:

AFA suppelements may exacerbate or precipitate autoimmune disease
AFA supplements are not a good vitamin B12 source
In one study, all 12 of the tested AFA supplements were contaminated with liver toxic microcystins
Another study found that 85 of 87 blue-green algae supplements tested positive for hepatotoxic microcystins, with 72% of the product samples testing over the regulatory limit

See, with me you don't have to take my word for it, or the word of somebody working at the health food store, or anybody else. The data is published right there, for anybody who wants to review it to find. That was done in under 10 minutes, and isn't even the point I'm trying to argue! All I'm looking for is for you (or anybody) to show me that StemEnhance mobilizes stem cells from the marrow into the bloodstream, where they then infiltrate the organs "where they are most needed" which in turn promotes healing (and 'optimal stem cell physiology', whatever that is) and maintain body/organ functioning safely and better than a placebo control. So far, all there is is weak evidence of modest and transient stem cell mobilization. In less than 10 minutes I provided more scientific evidence of potential harm than anybody has in StemEnhance's favour in the close to one month that this article has been on our blog. (actual clickable links aren't necessary, just the URLs are fine)

Of course phrases like 'optimal stem cell physiology', 'travel to the area of the body where they are most needed', 'maintenance of optimal health' and 'important to support your stem cells in maintaining proper organ and tissue functioning in your body' (all quotes from a StemEnhance website) are all pretty nebulous (and meaningless until you define things like what 'optimal' function is). But they are crafted that way for a reason. To the layperson they sound impressive and like a proven medical product when in fact they are designed specifically so the product doesn't have to deal with cumbersome regulations demanded of drugs or natural health products. You say this yourself in your comment: "they do not make claims because health canada does not allow claims to be made by food or they would fall under a drug or a natural health product NPN number,its basically a food with good amounts of vitamins,minerals,trace minerals,proteins,antioxidants,enzymes etc which you are allowed to claim which they do". I don't doubt that some of these AFA products have vitamin and mineral content. One of the reasons the pills aren't recommended for people on anti-coagulants is high vitamin K content. StemEnhance goes beyond claims of vitamin and mineral content. They claim an effect - mobilization of bone marrow stem cells to promote health and healing, which is quite different from a strict nutritional claim. Health Canada or the FDA may find that the claims made are sufficiently vague to avoid categorization as a drug, but that doesn't mean they aren't unethical or misleading to consumers.

Health Canada DOES have this to say about AFA products: "...for many non-Spirulina blue-green algal products, particularly those harvested from natural lakes, when consumed according to manufacturers' directions, the resulting daily intake of microcystins was above that considered acceptable by Health Canada and the World Health Organization" as well as this: "Health Canada is advising consumers to apply caution in their use of the products until evidence of their safety can be firmly established. In particular, adult consumers who choose to use products containing non-Spirulina blue-green algae should do so for short periods of time only" and finally this: "has not authorized the marketing of any blue-green algal products for any therapeutic purpose." Just to clarify, AFA products fall under the umbrella of non-Spirulina blue-green algae. Those quotes come directly from the Health Canada website section on blue-green algae, which I linked to in the original blog post.

As for some of your other comments... You bring up Jason Spezza. Great hockey player. I'm a fan. Is he a doctor? An expert in health care? Why would I care about his advice on a medical supplement? Nevermind the fact that professional hockey players (and athletes in general) are notorious for superstition. But let's entertain that notion for a second (though as much as I would love to get him on the phone, I doubt it will happen) - where will we find him? Oh, right there on the injury list where he's been for the past 4 games. So much for the wondrous healing power of StemEnhance!

Anyhow, I don't know if you've explored our humble website much in your visits here, but you may notice that we produce a podcast (internet radio show) in which we have a beer and discuss science and science news pretty informally. If you're willing, we'd love to take you up on your offer to meet when you come to Ottawa if you'd like to join us on our show. Just give us some notice before you're in town.

john said...

those tests were done in 1999,since then no afa product coming out of klamath had any high levels of microcystein.E3 live has never once been tested for high levels of microcystein,FDA visits e3live 4 times ayear and sometimes makes suprise visits not once did they find anything.Your drinking water in ottawa has higher levels of microcystein i would be concerned about that,the allowable levels of microcytein in canada are 1 part per million,in e3live is 0.01 part ber billion basically non detectable,that was cell tech long time ago who were tested for that,ask health canada about updating there web-site since 2002.They are completely lost when it comes to that when i called them about microcystein problems they replied by saying the AFA is an endangered species,i would not listen to them call my friend shawn buckley a lawyer out of kamlops who already has sewed health canada for lying so many times and winning as a matter of fact.If your going to believe health canada the biggest fraud bullshitters on the planet than that shows how much you know about science my friend.When i went to the CHFA meeting in Toronto you should have seen how fast the person who represented health canada for health products ran out of there he could not even lie properly,so my friend get your facts right about microcystien,first of all it occurs naturally in all bodies of water secoond thanks to technology it removes almost all microcystein just ask wayne carmichael top toxologiist in the world who at one point told the whole world that AFA was terrible,but now actually wrote a book on how powerful this plant is for healing, you can call him im sure he would love to set you straight.So once again my friend if the only thing you can pull up on AFA is what Health canada says guess what almost all people in canada do not trust anything they say only you do which you should actually see the people who work at health canada they all look like there about to die,so im not going to listen to them no matter what they say and guess what most people think ther full of shit,they love pesticides they love drugs they love chemicals just look at them,they are the better drug dealers then my friends from my old neibourhood.And when i come to Ottawa i will love to come on the radioshow and hang out with you guys,why don't you guys come up here in Nelson BC where im at, they love scientist and join us for a liver cleanse.

john said...

And you like to talk about doctors,well what do doctors know about nutrition they all look like there going to die to,they only know how to push drugs because big pharma puts money in there pockets,they go to school for 25 years take a 4 hour course on nutrition.Guess what i would rather see a butcher then a doctor if something happened to me so we all know exactly how bad doctors are.

kamel said...

John, you're talking all kinds of crazy over there.

"those tests were done in 1999,since then no afa product coming out of klamath had any high levels of microcystein"

Actually, if you read the sources I quoted and didn't just parrot information fed to you by the companies that sell the products, you would see that one of those studies was published in 2004, using products harvested that same year.

"E3 live has never once been tested for high levels of microcystein"

Has never once been tested? Or has been tested and never tested positive?

"Your drinking water in ottawa has higher levels of microcystein i would be concerned about that"

Source, please? Regardless, I'm not particularly concerned about microcystin levels in AFA products or in Ottawa drinking water. That wasn't the point I was trying to make. My point was that with very little effort I was able to come up with actual data supporting a position, which AFA supporters have failed to do in all the hot air being blown around this blog post. You keep spouting 'facts' without sources or references.

"ask health canada about updating there web-site since 2002"

Actually, I checked the page I referenced. It was last updated in 2004. Not ideal, I admit, but where is your data to prove otherwise? And more importantly, why is this another 'fact' you have incorrect?

"call my friend shawn buckley a lawyer out of kamlops who already has sewed health canada for lying so many times and winning as a matter of fact"

Sure. Does he have a phone number or email address I can contact him at? Are there particular case numbers or other info I should reference when corresponding with him?

"So once again my friend if the only thing you can pull up on AFA is what Health canada says guess what almost all people in canada do not trust anything they say only you do"

Uh, I pulled up far more than what Health Canada has said. Did you not see the links? Or read the post? I even pulled up StemEnhance's own data on AFA and picked at it as well. Besides, as I've said before, the onus is not on me to disprove AFA's efficacy, it's on the people making claims to prove them true. Almost all people in Canada do not trust anything Health Canada says? Can you back that one up with statistics as well? I'm not saying I take every Health Canada proclamation as the holy truth, but I'll pay more attention to it than to a bunch of snake oil men trying to push a product. If Health Canada issued a product recall on something you use would you return it? Are you vaccinated? If the CFIA (or are they not as evil??) issued an E. coli warning on a food you normally eat, would you stop eating it until it was declared safe? I guess what I'm trying to ask is: 'Is Health Canada a bunch of bullshit fraudsters in everything they do, or is it just the one area that pertains to a product you are personally invested in?'

As for "fraud bullshitters", how do you reslove this statement from the StemEnhance website: "Only embryonic stem cells have been associated with the development of aberrant growth. Stem cells present in specialized tissues such as the intestinal mucosa may also play a role in the development of aberrant growth. But stem cells released from the bone have not been associated with such problems" with this paper published last month that says bone marrow stem cells promote breast cancer metastasis?

"when i come to Ottawa i will love to come on the radioshow and hang out with you guys,why don't you guys come up here in Nelson BC where im at"

That's a sincere invitation, and I do hope you're in Ottawa soon and take us up on it. Just let us know in advance of your arrival so we can decide on a place to meet and schedule a time. I don't anticipate being in BC for about a year or so, but when I am I'll look you up. I'm not sure what a liver cleanse is, though.

"And you like to talk about doctors,well what do doctors know about nutrition"

First of all, this debate isn't about nutrition. It's about wild claims about health, healing and regeneration that your 'nutritional' supplements are making.

Secondly, it's YOU who likes to talk about doctors. I like talking about evidence. I have used the word 'doctor' exactly once in all my commentary on the subject up until now. That use was in my most recent comment (before this one) asking (rhetorically) if Jason Spezza was a doctor - trying to make the point that a professional hockey player is not a recognized authority on my health or how I can improve it. It's still unclear to me why I should listen to him on the subject. If he wants to give me tips on my wrist shot or skating on the other hand.... You, on the other hand, have brought up doctors multiple times and it's quite amusing how you can disparage the entire profession in one breath (eg."if you depend on modern medicine and Conventional doctors all i have to say good luck") yet rely on them as support for your cause (eg. "lets meet and i will give you 4000 maybe 5000 pages from the best doctors", "my resume of the people i help including NBA,NHL and Pro boxing,and some of the world reknown doctors and scientists", "one of my doctor friends doctor hastings has found thousands of articles on this topic,dr.gabriel cousins and DR.Brian clement a doctor and scientist have a shit load of evidence on the AFA"). Which is it? Should I trust a doctor's opinion or shouldn't I?

"i would rather see a butcher then a doctor if something happened to me"

Good luck with that.

john said...

You cannot call AFA snake oil,when health canada even lists it as a natural health product.Blue green algaes wheather AFA,spirulina,phytoplankton or chlorella have been used for foods for hundreds of years,now that for sure i can give you science on,i guess we can argue all day long bit the bottom line is your still looking for science on the stem cells,and your right because i can't tell you that what i can tell you its a great nutritional food,i do not make claims on our e3live but i do tell people its a great organic food with many nutrients in it,i do believe that it does nourish the bone marrow according to all my studies on nutrition wheather it does all these things that stemenhance claims it does i will leave that to the producer and yourself to argue about.The e3live has been tested throughly and has never tested above levels of microcysten,it has 2 certifications,one being oregon tilth and the other USDA,it also is kosher certified and regulated as a organic food from the oregon department of agriculture.I did get off the phone with shawn buckley he is a busy man but you can google him and get info on him,he spends most of his time going after health canada i will interview him at our radio station here in nelson BC you should tune in once in awhile on thursdays its about alot of stuff you might be intrested in.My boxer steve molitor top and best boxer ever in canada you can google him also just finished a talk on breakfast television and talked alot about e3live its his favorite product,usually his agent asks for thousands of dollars for from sponsors but he believes so much in e3live that he does it for free his manager who is 67 i think has a 26 year old girlfriend and can't get it up to have sex with her,but when he started taking the AFA he had not changed anything else but could go hours pleasing her after taking it for some time.I will definetely hook up with you guys when i come to Ottawa,it could be sooner as i visit friends in the area every once in awhile.

kamel said...

"health canada even lists it as a natural health product"

Oh, NOW I'm supposed to listen to the fraudsters at Health Canada? (I'm kidding, of course)

"My boxer steve molitor top and best boxer ever in canada ... just finished a talk on breakfast television and talked alot about e3live its his favorite product"

Again with the 'expert' testimony of professional athletes! I mean, it's great that you have all these celebrity endorsements, but it really doesn't mean a thing.

On the other hand, I'm glad you're starting to see my point of view. I don't care if you market your product as a food and simply list nutritional information. It's when the unproven medical claims start coming out that I start to have issues. You can extol the nutritional value of orange juice (for example) all you want, but once Minute Maid starts marketing a proprietary orange extract that reverses aging or speeds up healing from physical injury then you're straying from what (in my opinion) is acceptable. If you're going to peddle a miracle cure-all that hasn't been proven to live up to hype then I'm going to call it what it is: snake oil.

I haven't explored the e3live site very deeply, but it seems to be flogging similar effects. That is, e3live may ** cure any one of dozens of health complaints. (** 'These statements are not evaluated by the U.S. Food & Drug Administration. These products, and the information contained at this website, are not intended to treat, cure or prevent any disease. Results may vary.') At least e3live has the decency to include the small print at least partially acknowledging the lack of hard evidence, I guess.

I think it's great that you have a nutritious food on your hands. It's great that it's certified organic. Fantastic that it's certified kosher (opens up the market to another large group to suck in, I guess). Not so great that there are unsubstantiated health claims to go along with the facts.

john said...

Like i said there are scientific facts on the e3live,actually we do have food scientist who understands this and we do have some pharmaceutical scientist in the US who are working closely with e3live and also wayne carmicheal expert in cyanobacteria and there health qualities.We do have thousands of people who buy the e3live and sometimes we can't keep up the demand so i do not think there suckers for wanting to buy something they like,if you liked oranges or apples you would buy them would't you and like i said we do make some claims and there is science to back it up according to all the experts i talked about the subject,in canada we do not make claims on the e3live we simply advertise it as a food.I will gather up some of the science from a couple of key people who are putting together more and more info.Now once again if there are over hundreds of thousands of people eating micro or macro algaes just in North America and hundreds of thousands more in other countries should'nt we as educators and scientists take a closer look at this,i feel it will come soon when it will be accepted more on a scientific level.Myself as a nutritionalist and herbalist and have travelled lots and see how are native ancestors lived off the lands free of chemicals and diseases i do not always count on science or depend on it when most of these same scientist are saying well GMO foods have not been scientifically proven to be bad for us and pesticides and all these chemicals have not been scientifically proven to be bad for us,but you know and i know deep down inside that these are killing people and just look at how sick we are here in North america,so while iam waiting for science to prove things for me i will continue to go on my gut feelings because when i do that my life seems to be rolling on just beautifully,but i do understand we live in age of having to proove things all the time and science is needed in some way but the days will come and the truths will come and the people will wake out of this sick polluted world we live in and guess what,no more science no more chemicals and pesticides and drugs,we will go back to a natural way of living not destroying.

kamel said...

"Like i said there are scientific facts on the e3live"

I'm sure there are nutritional facts on e3live. Is there data showing that it can "improve mental focus and concentration", "delay or reverse premature aging", "purify, nourish, and heal your blood" or any of the other specific claims on the e3live website? Can I see it?

"in canada we do not make claims on the e3live we simply advertise it as a food"

I think it's a poor argument to say it's OK because in Canada you simply advertise as food. That may be true, but in the US you don't, you advertise with specific health claims that haven't been assessed by the FDA and haven't been backed up. (yes, yes - "experts" have told you, and apparantly you have data to back it up but for some reason can't provide it to me at all) Those claims are easily accessed by Canadians looking for the product (as far as I can tell, the Canadian e3live website is just a page on the US site and requires going there to find it), just like US visitors can easily find this blog and our commentary on the product. I also think that anyone who answers with what is allowed when asked what is right is a scoundrel.

if there are over hundreds of thousands of people eating micro or macro algaes just in North America and hundreds of thousands more in other countries should'nt we as educators and scientists take a closer look at this

Yep, I totally agree. BEFORE you start selling it as a cure-all.

john said...

Never ever said its a cure all,but we all know that when a specific food not a drug is loaded with nutrients we all know and let me say we do not need science for this that we will get more mental clarity etc.And like i said most science is and backed up by pharmaceutical companies thats why there worried because people are finding out more and more how there drugs just make people more sick and sick who is paying health canada and the FDA well according to some of the interviews conducted by some researchers it looks like OH is that BIG PHARMA again ,so when i finish gathering all the scientific stuff on AFA from a well known food scientist and DR.Loyd an amazing chinese medicine doctor i will be more than happy to show you all the data on it.And like i said the time is coming very close when the truths will be revealed,and all the lies will rise to the surface and are real truthful scientist will be working for the good of mankind not the greedy pharmaceutical companies and corrupted governments,there is a real cool ex scientist who will be speaking in Toronto who worked for health canada and simply lost his job because he told the truth about Bovine growth hormone and how terrible it is for the human body but health canada would say and its science that it is good for you, now which idiot would believe that well it cost him his job and now he is out there righting books and lectures on these people{FDA,HEALTH CANADA}you see my friend its okay to be skeptical but don't wait for science controlled by these vampires to tell you whats good or bad for you,they will crumble very soon and they know it and all there bullshit will rise to the surface soon,there will be no room for ignornace and greed,so i hope you change your mind about FDA and Health canada,and maybe since your a scientist why don't you take the AFA and do your own scientific experiments,or gather your team together and show all these algae eaters that there just eating snake oil.amd im sure you will be very surprised the results you come up with.take care

kamel said...

No, the words 'cure-all' came from me, but all you have to do is look at the e3live website and you'll see a over a dozen different health claims ranging from rejuvination to blood purification. That's as close to a 'cure-all' as you're going to find. What word would you prefer? Cure-most just doesn't have the same ring to it. And whether you personally said it or not is irrelevant - that's how the product is being marketed.

I think you're getting sidetracked with the whole FDA/Health Canada business. It's not so much that it's not FDA approved it's that these products make wild claims with no supporting evidence. It just happens that the FDA and Health Canada are the bodies we have set up to assess those kinds of claims. I'm happy with peer-reviewed research. So I'll ask you again: where is the data showing that it can "improve mental focus and concentration", "delay or reverse premature aging", "purify, nourish, and heal your blood"?

Regarding your 'Health Canada is evil' stance, I've addressed it before in these comments, but I'll repeat myself again verbatim: If Health Canada issued a product recall on something you use would you return it? Are you vaccinated? If the CFIA (or are they not as evil??) issued an E. coli warning on a food you normally eat, would you stop eating it until it was declared safe? I guess what I'm trying to ask is: 'Is Health Canada a bunch of bullshit fraudsters in everything they do, or is it just the one area that pertains to a product you are personally invested in?'

In the end your huffing and puffing about Health Canada and the pharmaceutical companies are just straw men distracting from the core issue: Is there any hard evidence (not testimonial or anecdotal), that AFA products have the miracle effects that they claim? You keep saying there is, but keep failing to provide any and I'll keep huffing and puffing until you do. I don't need every last shred of it, lets start small. How about the first item on the e3live nutritional 'facts': "Delay or reverse premature aging, repair cell damage, and eliminate toxins." Throw me some data.
(of course, the original core issue was whether StemEnhance actually mobilized stem cells and whether it had any biological relevance but we seem to strayed a little)

"your a scientist why don't you take the AFA and do your own scientific experiments,or gather your team together and show all these algae eaters that there just eating snake oil"

This point has been brought up and addressed several times already. Rather than quote myself for the 3rd time in this comment I'll just tell you to go back and read what I had to say about it already. I'll just emphasize the point that the burden of proof is on you, the one making the claims, not on me. Besides, when you have barrels of proof that you can just send me, it seems silly for me to invest the time and resources. Right?

john said...

WE would not be able to make claims in the US without backing up the claims,so i will definetely send it to you when i get them gathered up,one question i would like to answer and don't mind if i offend you,what kinda of lifestyle do you live and what do you eat on a daily basis,if i asked you to go and get certain blood tests done and a few others and have them sent down to a world reknown doctor/scientist to see whats going on in your system woud you do it,and second like i said just brace yourself for the truths that will surface soon and i hope your ready,and like i said with a good friend of mine today in australia science is very important for the future as it is emerging soon with old medicines of the past which was herbs,plants,algaes,mushrooms,barks etcand not pharmaceutical drugs.And what really matters at the end of the day is if the person who is taking something likes it,i would not question you if you like vitamin C or B complex or oranges as long as you like it you buy it,well most people and i think 100% of them who take it love it,so your going to have to question the hundreds of thousands of people who love AFA why they like it.

john said...

WE would not be able to make claims in the US without backing up the claims,so i will definetely send it to you when i get them gathered up,one question i would like to answer and don't mind if i offend you,what kinda of lifestyle do you live and what do you eat on a daily basis,if i asked you to go and get certain blood tests done and a few others and have them sent down to a world reknown doctor/scientist to see whats going on in your system woud you do it,and second like i said just brace yourself for the truths that will surface soon and i hope your ready,and like i said with a good friend of mine today in australia science is very important for the future as it is emerging soon with old medicines of the past which was herbs,plants,algaes,mushrooms,barks etcand not pharmaceutical drugs.And what really matters at the end of the day is if the person who is taking something likes it,i would not question you if you like vitamin C or B complex or oranges as long as you like it you buy it,well most people and i think 100% of them who take it love it,so your going to have to question the hundreds of thousands of people who love AFA why they like it.

john said...

WE would not be able to make claims in the US without backing up the claims,so i will definetely send it to you when i get them gathered up,one question i would like to answer and don't mind if i offend you,what kinda of lifestyle do you live and what do you eat on a daily basis,if i asked you to go and get certain blood tests done and a few others and have them sent down to a world reknown doctor/scientist to see whats going on in your system woud you do it,and second like i said just brace yourself for the truths that will surface soon and i hope your ready,and like i said with a good friend of mine today in australia science is very important for the future as it is emerging soon with old medicines of the past which was herbs,plants,algaes,mushrooms,barks etcand not pharmaceutical drugs.And what really matters at the end of the day is if the person who is taking something likes it,i would not question you if you like vitamin C or B complex or oranges as long as you like it you buy it,well most people and i think 100% of them who take it love it,so your going to have to question the hundreds of thousands of people who love AFA why they like it.

john said...

And why isn't that health canada or the FDA issueing recalls on pharmaceutical drugs even after they admitted it causing hundreds of thousands of deaths yearly,why is there not recaalls on foods that have sprayed with pesticides and herbicides and aspartame and all the crap chems they put in your food,there has never been one death associated with health products but you seem to put alot of faith in Health canada,why did they fire the person who is about to go national about bovine growth hormone in meat,because he cares about mankind and his people which we all know our governments don't,health canada does not want people to know whats really going on,have you been to there website it states were protecting our peoples health,well how bout we got the worse health care system in the world,if they really cared they would stop all pharmaceutical drugs,white sugar,refined foods ,pesticides,alcohol,cigarettes etc which kills hundreds of thousands but they keep it on the shelves because a whole lot of money goes into there pockets,why don't they stop that but iam sure the list above happens to be in your food groups anyway.

Alex said...

My apologies for being short minded in the response to this feed. I only read about two posts between Paul and Kamel (the first two). I would simply ike to back Paul. Clearly Paul new more about what he was talking about he stated the three stages. And then directly after his post Kamel supported his second step. Violently opposing it. What kind of respect is it in a forum when someone's first response is "Paul, you have it wrong" who the hell is Kamel.

Now i would like to introduce myself. My name is Alex Martin and I happen to be an independent distributor for this product StemEnhance. It is only my second week. IM RICH!!!!...yes arleady... I make excellent money. I fell good about it. I meet great people. I help them. And they have no problem paying around $85/month for two bottles. Just because the MSRP is $60 doesnt mean most are getting it for $39.99/bottle. Now to defend Christian Drapeua. He has been involved with the active ingredient for almost two decades. He knows what hes talking about. besides the ignorant and short minded skeptics who support Paul's second step there are none who have anything negative to say about the product. it really is amazing. And it really is a medical breakthrough. I am going to get ahead of myself here so I will stop the post here and continue to read on before I post again. But i do realize people have MUCH more confidence to bash on the internet. If anyone thinks they can keep with a 19 year old. I will gladly rip you a new one in any conversation over the phone 916-337-2852. Thank you for everyone's time and Best Regards.


P.S. Those who consume the product, I KNOW YOU ALL DIG IT!!!!! Joe Dirt: "Life's a garden, DIG IT!"

Alex said...

Alright, Im sorry its Alex again. The nineteen year old who is not a paper pusher, book turner, have a masters in science. But I am much more wise than Kamel. How are you wrong...The evidence is in black and white. The testimonials just support it. how are you like Christian Drapeau. You are a scientist in training....TRAINING...homeboy is one...has been for a long time... in MULTIPLE DIFFERENT fields. I've met him.. He speaks fluent french, english, spanish, speaks a lot of others just excellently. Please do not ever again compare yourself to him.. You are very ignorant when you do so. you think validating the correlation between you and him makes your point more valid. Really shows how you will only be getting the grades your whole life. Good luck lol. I was a C student in high school... and IM RICH!!!! not even my second year after grad. And im a go getter. I wanna see your paychecks... I wanna see your triple blind studies. i wanna see you speak different languages. Come on bro...WHAT YOU GOT! call me, email me. post to me.... ILL BRING IT ALL DAY!

Alex said...

OMG...IM BACK ALREADY AFTER READING bayman...(lower case cuz thats i feel about you) lol. bayman i hope you are not trying to back government tested drugs.. the FDA... are you for real... WE all know what kind of positions people have found themselves in when taking FDA approved drugs. Come on bro....People are bed riden and crazy the rest of their lives because of pain medication... and please dont come back with some crap about taking the recommended dosage...HAHAHa! My best friend who happens to be in the USMC. His father is one of the most respected CHP, narcotics officers in the Sacramento County. Handled one of the biggest busts on the arizona, mexico border. Blew five discs in his back in a high speed pursuit. Because of the governemnt, FDA approved dosages of a pain killer.. HE NO LONGER REMEMBER ANY OF HIS SONS FREINDS( I lived with them for 6 mnths..he doesn't recognize me).... We all know in the next couple decades there are going to be some major changes in our government, our health care. Too many people are irritated. I cant beleive someone of your mannor would ever support drugs approved by the FDA in comparsion to a flippin natural product that comes up out of a lake!!!! a lake!!!!!!! a fucking lake!!!! woops i cant cuss can i...well i hope the adjective helps the potency. CHEERS BOYS!!!!! if my account is deactivated, i hope you all got a fire under your ass from reading what i wrote, i am a motivator...its why im rich :)!!!! i motivate people to make me money!

lol p.s. call me if you want a job.


SO. thought Id help out a friend. Hey alex! Anyways, regardless of any fears or preconcieved notions you all have about this product, give it a chance. Open up your mind to greater things, dont deem it impossible just because it seems to good to be true. The reason you all are so angry on here is because of fear, fear which turns to anger, thus resulting in you guys sounding like angry, ignorant, college kids. Open your minds, this world is not black and white. When I am 120 and you are looking down on me relaxing by the pool in my hott ass bikini (yes I will still look young lol) you will regret everything you've said on here.
thank you

john said...

Hey alex good to see you have a brain and consciousness somebody i can relate to,i have been bringing e3live into the country for 4 years now,i basically sell to a couple of thousand stores in the country here in canada,i also believe in stemenhance i personally no christian,i train all pro athletes on this stuff,but are friend karmel is still waiting for science and relying on aspirins and codein which are deemed safe by our governments,anyways cool to have you on board,beware karmel will attack you for proof,hopefully he will wake up one day and see what is really going on.cheers

Anonymous said...

Wow, things have gotten a little out of hand here it seems. John, Alex, and Liz, I found you a nice natural mushroom grown in the forest, THE FOREST. No pesticides were used so its organic, ORGANIC. Science will tell you it will kill you, but hey, its natural right? If I like eating natural, organic, poisonous mushrooms then I should, and I should also sell them to all my friends right? Funny that the only reason we don't go around eating absolutely everything nature has to offer us is because a few people experimented and relized that sometimes natural things WILL KILL YOU! Thanks science!!

Alex said...

lol anonymous,
I will let your entire post speak for itsef. it really shows the diminishing traits of an anymous post, even more than I thought possible. You must have recognized the impotence in your own thoughts. Thank you for your concern on shrooms being sold in a network marketing company.


john said...

Actually mr.anymous mushrooms are now being researched in science for amazing healing qualities,like algaes some can kill you and some can heal you.Its funny both are needed for you to actually exist,one being algae a photosynthisiser that feeds off of sunlight in order to create 90% of our oxygen,carbon,nitrogen,hydrogen so we can breathe and eat all these wonderful animals and plants actually cyanobacteria is not an animal nor a plant but creates both species and is its own species,without you do not exist and isn't it funny is it possible we can run the whole worlds energy on endless amounts of algae we already know we can but your big money guys that control your ass want you to support the oil and gas industries who are destroying the planet your living on,mushrooms well there also hear to save your ass to and have intelligence of well lets say billions of years of existence just like algae,but they are decomposers and grow on decay death and they help clean up the enviroment just google paul stamet world scientist and expert on mushrooms,so before you go and dis mushrooms and algaes the yin and yang of our planet life and death and renewal you should take a ling look at these because at the end there going to save your ass so you can stick around and see a lttle more,because if the world decides to puke and get rid of all humans on earth guess what 2 species will still be around yeap mushrooms and algaes.siya

john said...

so once again,if were looking to clean up the mess we started we can start from learning from these species,some of these are more edible beyond your wildest dreams,and when you start to consume these you actually tap into info about this planet from times you can't even imagine,which they will help completely heal the enviroment,our bodies and are spirits.Just remember these are much smarter than science and so primordial that they will be the most important scientific info of the 21st century.

Anonymous Coward said...

How typical, a bunch of self-deluded pill pushers that rely on ad-hominem attacks and flawed logic to make a quick buck. It's not even worth it for us to answer you. While you're lying to extort sick people, we will be hard at work in the lab making a difference. I hope you sleep well at night.

LIZ said...

Alright, to start off john, thank you for having a brain as well. Second to the "anonymous coward" above me, which first off your name is pathetic, I truely cannot understand your logic. You are so narrow minded its insane. The fact that you are going to sit on here and jugde my intentions with this product are rediculous. I am not blindly selling a product in which I have not seen or used myself. I have witnessed people recieving amazing healing results. From friends with fractured wrists making a full recovery in only a few days, to people with conditons with such as parkinsons, which symptoms were reduced to almost nothing in a matter of weeks. This product is doing wonders, you are only too ignorant to understand or grasp that concept. FAR beyond the money aspect of selling this product, if I could sit back in 60 years from now, looking at all of the peoples whos lives I have influenced in a positive way, I could rest in my grave without a stitch of resentment for the life I lived.
go to my website and learn more.

kamel said...

First of all, I just want to thank you all for making this the single most commented on post on our blog. 50 comments and still going strong. Those numbers are a bit skewed since John seems to have some issues with the 'submit' button and double or triple posts comments, but it still remains our most popular article in terms of comments. On the other hand, it seems like the crazies multiply like bunnies when I step away for a couple of days so there's a lot to respond to. That being the case, I'll start way back with John's comments from right before Alex joined us and go from there. Sorry for the length.

John says: "WE would not be able to make claims in the US without backing up the claims"

You would by using the kind of cagey language typical of quackery. That is, claims with loads of asterisks beside them and plenty of fine print. Phrases like "MAY support physical health", "may purify, nourish and heal your blood" and my favourite from StemEnhance, "helps support optimal stem cell physiology" (what does that even mean??). These statements are dodgy enough to avoid a crackdown from the FDA but sound reasonable enough to a layperson that they expect real medical results. Again, it's the difference between what is allowed and what is right.

"what kinda of lifestyle do you live and what do you eat on a daily basis"

I live a pretty typical student life. I go for drinks after work and probably don't eat as well as I should. I play volleyball and I curl on a weekly basis. I routinely skip breakfast (coffee is my breakfast on a typical day), and I don't have a family physician. I haven't seen a doctor in years, except for a trip to the travel clinic over a year ago to get vaccinations for Hep and Typhoid (let me guess, you're anti-vaccine?). My last bloodwork was done in 1999 or 2000 and came back fine. I don't take prescription drugs, and avoid non-prescription ones. I haven't ever missed a day of work due to illness. Sorry, what was the point you were trying to make?

"And why isn't that health canada or the FDA issueing recalls on pharmaceutical drugs even after they admitted it causing hundreds of thousands of deaths yearly"

Uh, ever hear of Vioxx?

"you seem to put alot of faith in Health canada"

*sigh* For the millionth time, I put a lot of faith in evidence. The fact that it happens the FDA or Health Canada that reviews the evidence is irrelevant. If it was some other body in charge, that's the name that would keep popping up. It's what the evidence is that I'm interested in. But it seems like I'm going die of old age before I see it. (Unless I start taking your product, of course - delaying and reversing aging is one of the claims, no?)

"how bout we got the worse health care system in the world"

Are you kidding me? Really? By what metric? Certainly not life expectancy. Or health care spending. Or access to health care. According to the World Health Organization, Canada is among the tops in terms of responsiveness of the health care system. We rank as the fairest in North America in terms of health system finance - top ten in the world in terms of health spending. We also rank very highly in terms of average level of health. It's dubious "facts" like 'we got the worse health care system' that raise doubts about the other "facts" you're spouting. But I'm sure you have an imaginary study that supports this ridiculous statement that I'll never get to see.

Alex says: "What kind of respect is it in a forum when someone's first response is 'Paul, you have it wrong'"

Wait, so let me understand - Paul implies that I 'have it wrong' (with no real substance to back it up) and throws in an insult for good measure (granted, he took it from our own tagline, but there's a difference between our self-effacing and his intent) but when I tell him that he has it wrong, and explain why, I'm the one being disrespectful? OK, Emily Post, how would you have put it? Or how about you ignore my opening statement in that post and deal with the content and not the window dressing. My point, if you had read beyond the part that was so offensive, is that the onus is on the people selling a health care product to prove its efficacy, not the general public or anybody else to prove it doesn't.

Regarding Paul's 3 stages of truth, that was already addressed here by Rob, but I find this new Law of Epistemology fascinating. So when I 'violently oppose' Paul, for example, I'm confirming the truth of his statement. Forgetting for a minute how ridiculous a position that is - proof by opposition? - when you or John or anybody else 'violently oppose' my view that StemEnhance doesn't meet its responsibilities as a health product this DOESN'T confirm MY 'truth'? So who gets to claim truth under your law? The first person to make a claim? Only people whose views coincide with yours?

Alex then goes on to brag about how much money he's making as a snake-oil man, forcing me to point out another logical problem. Presumably we're not supposed to trust medical professionals or government agencies because they're all on the payroll of pharmaceutical companies (Alex himself hasn't said that, but the point has been made in these discussions and it seems to flow naturally from the anti-FDA/anti-Health Canada positions). When Alex, or somebody else, sings the praises of a product they are selling and profiting from I'm supposed to accept it as truth and not treat it with the same skepticism?

Alex then says: "besides the ignorant and short minded skeptics who support Paul's second step there are none who have anything negative to say about the product"

Well certainly there are none in the StemEnhance PR kit that they probably sent you. Maybe you didn't see the comment from Angella who took the product and had no positive effects (and whose health actually worsened - though let me be clear in saying I'm not ascribing that to StemEnhance). Let me guess, she's an 'ignorant, short-minded skeptic'. Or better yet, let me rephrase your comment: "There are none who say anything negative about the product, except for the people who say negative things about it." See how much sense that makes?

"But i do realize people have MUCH more confidence to bash on the internet ... I will gladly rip you a new one in any conversation over the phone 916-337-2852"

Ha ha. This is going to sound bad but actually, I don't have a telephone right now - long story. (cue Alex's response: "See! I knew you wouldn't do it!") I'm more than happy to have a real conversation - you may have noticed that I've invited John to join us for a discussion on our podcast - but for now you're going to have to deal with internet chirping.

"The evidence is in black and white. The testimonials just support it."

The evidence is clearly not in black and white, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. Again, read the original post. I looked at the reviewed and published evidence. It had data weakly supporting the notion of stem cell mobilization and zero data supporting the notion of improved healthiness by ANY measure, let alone the dozens of ways the product claims. Throughout the discussion here there has been absolutely no rebuttal of my review of that paper, except for Marilyn who whined that the data I showed wasn't fair when, in fact, it was the only data. I'm obviously not explaining myself clearly when I say testimonials are NOT a substitute for scientific evidence. I don't know how many different ways I can put it, so maybe I'll let someone else do it for me. Check out this blog post that discusses alternative medicine and testimonial evidence, particularly the final 2 paragraphs. Don't like a blog? How about wikipedia that has this to say about testimonials and anecdotal evidence. And before you tell me that so many people say it works that it must, read this.

"You are a scientist in training....TRAINING ... you think validating the correlation between you and him makes your point more valid"

Let me clarify what I meant, since apparantly you don't take things in full context. My point was that in the course of completing a B.Sc and an M.Sc I learned that anecdotal/testimonial evidence is no replacement for peer-reviewed scientific study. Mr. Drapeau has similar training (a B.Sc and an M.Sc). Therefore, Mr. Drapeau should know that anecdotal/testimonial evidence is no replacement for peer-reviewed scientific study. Am I going to have to spell out every argument in the form of a syllogism for you? (I call myself a scientist-in-training because I am pursuing a Ph.D)

"He speaks fluent french, english, spanish, speaks a lot of others just excellently ... i wanna see you speak different languages."

Is that how we're judging claims now? By how many languages the originator speaks? I guess I'm SOL since I only speak 2: English and French. Oh, and the one that is actually relevant for this discussion - science.

"IM BACK ALREADY AFTER READING bayman...(lower case cuz thats i feel about you)"

I guess you've given up on the whole demand for respect thing?

a whole lot of irrelevant nonsense about how bad the FDA is

Read through some of the earlier comments. The issue at hand isn't how good or bad the FDA is. It's whether there is scientific evidence to back up the medical claims made about a certain product. By the way, I'm still waiting for my 'new one'.

Liz enters the discussion with: "deem it impossible just because it seems to good to be true"

I don't deem it impossible. I deem it unproven. It's not because it seems to good to be true, it's because there is little evidence to support their claims.

"regardless of any fears ... about this product, give it a chance ... fear which turns to anger"

Let me guess: 'Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Fear is the path to the dark side.' I think, despite our differences about StemEnhance, we can all agree that that movie sucked. What? A Yoda quote? I guess I really am an ignorant college kid. Oh well, while I'm being immature I guess I may as well ask: Can you send us some pics of that 'hot ass bikini'? :)

And our friend John is back: "karmel is still waiting for science and relying on aspirins and codein"

Technically, since you all claim that the science is done, I'm waiting for you guys to send it to me. Not sure where you got the idea that I dose myself with aspirin or codeine, but I guess as we've seen before with your 'facts' that it doesn't really matter if they're correct or not.

"karmel will attack you for proof"

You say this like it's a bad thing! Is it really that unreasonable to ask a company that is trying to sell lake water to reverse aging (among other things) for $60 a pop to back up those claims?

And the Anonymous Coward joins us! Thank you, AC, it's getting exasperating (and exhausting) to keep replying to all these folks. But, like my ruminant namesake (John, it's kamel not karmel), I'm pretty stubborn. The nice thing about this discussion continuing on so long and the lack of novelty in the StemEnhance defense is that it's getting to the point where I can just refer to previous comments for rebuttals to their arguments. Health Canada is evil? See comment X. Loads of testimonial evidence? See comment Y. Still, AC, I hope you're going to stick around for this circus.

Whew. That was a tough slog. That will teach me to ignore the bayblab for a couple of days!

john said...

Kamel since i do not have your email check this out i hope you care in someway,but this is who your betting on to help us with science and health care.good luck heh and pass the movie on to your teachers.


I just got off a phone with a scientist and a doctor out of australia who have been using AFA for the past decade on well i can't make claims,but they have been doing blind test studies and science on diseased bodies,you are going to be shocked when you get this info,and with the video above after you watch "remember i told you the truth will come out very soon"and after that i hope your stil not waiting for scientific proof on the stuff thats been proven for drugs to help you,yea the same assholes who are teaching your poor ass in school if i was you your better off with a mcdonalds job.

john said...

And kamel your doctor said your fine,way to go and you believe him,what school do you go to?.Just check out the video and see whats going on,have you done blood cell analysis,for parasites,toxins or heavymetals,i can guarantee your full of them,many people i know who had there doctors tell them there fine end up dying or getting sick,you think i want to take advice from a doctor just look the way they look,nasty and very unhealthy.Look my friend i know what these products can do and i have studied them for ten years or more and not once have i gotten bad thing said about them from thousands and thousands of people,but you still have faith in science,FDA and health canada well you seen the video they kill 7000 people a year just on misprint of info not once has anatural health product hurt anyone,so i will continue to help people ,feel better and better every day,be happy make money knowing that im helping people not killing them like your people,and you can still go to school,have beers drink coffee with bad breath and a rotten colon,pretend your getting an education and make no money,and rot in ottawa,while im here in the mountains swimming in beautiful water,hanging out with people who have a consciousness and meet people who care about helping people,who don't pollute the enviroment and grow there food organically,heh look at the end of the day i just hope that your on the right track and you help people,iam very confident in what i do i have a huge resume to proove it,i just hope that you will be able to help mankind,but after watching that video and that is 100% true i have no faith in the system,government,medical science whatever it is all it has done so far is cause disease,death,sickness,greed,destroy mother nature and create robots like you, remember those who will survive are those who think outside of the box and it seems you don't want to go there you would rather depend on the system that everybody knows who has a consciousness will crumble.take care

john said...

that is the proper video for all you people on this post to watch.Lets wake up and see what really is happening.

kamel said...

A McDonalds job? You really want me working for a company that just a little while ago you were accusing of poisoning the world?

You clearly don't read what I write. I said I haven't seen a doctor in at least 7 years because I was required to have a blood test for a job. You seem to have this down to an art form - ignore any arguments I make, questions I ask and logical contradictions I point out and counter with irrelevant nonsense about oil companies and imagined facts about pretty much everything.

I don't think the health care system is perfect. That's a totally different argument entirely. The quality of modern medicine has absolutely nothing to do with the efficacy of StemEnhance. I'm not really sure why you can't understand that fact. I'm trying to think of a good, simple analogy for you. How about this - your argument is sort of like saying cars (modern medicine) pollute, but your lawnchair (StemEnhance) doesn't. You can sit in that lawnchair all day long but that doesn't mean it's going to get you to work (solve medical problems). It's not the best analogy, but maybe it will get the point across.

I watched your video. I watched it twice, in fact. And I started laughing right from the opening slide - "The Death of Blind Faith". The irony is that it's StemEnhance that is the blind faith in this discussion. Medicine is evidence based, and that evidence is there for anybody to see. StemEnhance is the faith-based medicine, asking us to believe that it works without anything to back it up. It then goes on to point out that the medical system isn't perfect, which I agree with - there's plenty of room for improvement. It then asks us not to trust it at all and 'follow the money'. The irony there is that this video was put together to market a website to sell books and health products that are being sold TO MAKE MONEY. Why don't we follow that money too?

Anyhow, you've gotten me sidetracked with the health care system question which, as I said, has nothing to do with whether StemEnhance, e3Live or others actually work which is the real point here. So let me take a different approach:

Let's assume that StemEnhance does work, and does reverse aging, and does speed up healing, and does all of the great things it claims to. Why not put it through a clinical trial? If it works, it works and the worst that can happen is that you now have ammunition to combat skeptics like me. This makes sense from an altruistic 'we're trying to help people' standpoint and from a business 'we want to sell more product' standpoint. The more people who believe in your product - and a successful clinical trial will definitely increase that number - the more product you can sell and the more people you can help. So why not do it? That's a question I want you to answer.

We both know that I'm looking for evidence, so why not stop your beating around the bush and your anti-doctor rants and step up and provide some. I'm not interested in hearing how bad Health Canada or the FDA are. I'm not interested in how many people take the supplement. I'm interested in the proof that it works and until you step up and provide some, we're just going to be running around in circles.

Alex said...

John, thank you for your recognition. It's rare someone of my age will recieve it. I would personally like to say I have more respect for your persistence than almost any I have come across. I haven't been back to read the reply posts to our few for a couple days. But after a few sentences that I can't even put adjectives in front of lol, I just got more and more dumb i think.. I don't know, Kamel....he like makes me dumber and dumb reading him. its frustrating. but then again I just can't keep his evidence can I. I just really feel dumb after reading his words. He's so....uninfluenced.. Kamel, I think you brought up the assumption of being against vaccines as a negative thing. have you not heard the latest news to the correlation of vaccines and autism. Now once again you will probably pull out some shit about, well the evidence is lacking. But just because your too (whatever it is you are), and you can't put two and two somewhat together. doesn't mean all others here cant. Damn man I am like reading over my post here. And not only did Kamel achieve making me feel dumber... My posts in reply to him I can really see are lacking my inteligence. I have to abandon this post. It will be nothing but continuous bickering back and forth. And I am a beleiver of positive energy. There isn't too much from Kamel. So dealing with him brings me down. John it is commendable that you can continue to relentlessly back the ethical, moral, and well being of our earth. Kamel, your just a fucking idiot....hahah im sorry bro. but you are. you just....don't get it. your so stuck...stuck stuck fear succes. I can read it your thoughts. Life is about the pursuit to happiness. I will continue to sustain mine. I hope you all do so as well. But a little word of advice. This feed is nothing but negative energy. If anyone is interested in correlating with me to promote business. Promote health. Promote anything positive. Feel free to E-mail me.

I do realize that I will no longer be posting in this feed, but I would like to make one last attempt to maybe shuffle it up a little bit. Put aside the bitterness of the topic. The evidence or lack there of. And the constant just...flat out wrong sentences towards StemEnhacne. for Ex: what is 30%...1000 cells or what?...well if you did some research you would know one stem cell has the ability to multiply.. you can't quite put an exact number on the 30%...but trust me theres 6 zero's in it...not just three. and

"helps support optimal stem cell physiology" (what does that even mean??). don't what the fuck your talking about...clearly you have done a limited amount of negative approach research on StemEnhance and Christian Drapeau...But you have ignorantly neglected to realize the focal point of StemEnhance and the scientists behind it are STEM CELL PHYSIOLOGY...why don't you go do some research on that...and then talk about that....StemEnhance doesn't claim to do jack shit except support the natural release of your adult stem cells. stop bickering about the product. and figure out what that means.

Tip: the focal point is stem some research on those....and you'll realize why the product is so amazing.

Plus I would like to maybe attempt to shuffle this feed in the direction of a player by player analysis. You guys should throw out some life experiences to support your claims. What am getting at is Kamel is just...well nothing on life's radar. I have designed, implemented, and maintained multi thousand dollar websites. I have been the top sales man in the leading cell phone industry in domestic united states. I have traveled to over 10different places in the global EARTH!!!!... Im 19... I hate braggin...I just ew. its gross.. its so much more satisfying and well fun to be humble. but when the ignorance of someone like Kamel is displayed it almost forces me to it. Just to bash on him a little more. I mean i might be wrong. I don't know.. I just i dont see what Kamel's got. A forum... I could implement that onto one of 50 different domains in under 48 hours....its like...I just don't see his credibility.... Now in comparison to someone like JOHN!!!! wow..amazing guy. you can just read it.. So much more efficient. Points so much more valid, and professionally displayed. he just has so much stacked up on the positive board for him in comparison to the rest here.

P.S. I feel retarded for having to deal with this feed. I have never seen such lack in progresion on a post. Making complete circles. I would be ashamed of my implementation. Good luck boys. I hope to see you all on the up...Well I know if i ever see Kamel, he would be decked in a quick second. But to the rest of you...hope your pursuit to happines is a good one. Just one bit of advice. Even to Kamel, don't let the negatives on your thoughts hold you down. The power of positive thinking is...the ultimate high.

I was about to submit...but i just had so many second thoughts... This is the most disturbing bit of writing I have dealt in.. So i will give you this credit Kamel, you got under my skin...but I will go enjoy my beutiful house, amazing friends. DROP DEAD GORGEOUS girlfriend. She would slaughter you in almost anything Kamel...including a fight.. I guarantee it. So those thoughts give me the confidence to click SUBMIT!!!! IM ON TOP OF THE WORLD MOTHA FUCKA!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

hmm. all that bragging about ur money and ur websites and where u travelled (do u really think 10 is impressive?)....u sound like ur trying to make up for something...let me guess alex...small penis?

kamel said...

Oh Alex,
A classic case of if you can't attack the argument, attack the person. Once again you fail to defend any of the logical contradictions in your case and fail to point out any in mine.

"Kamel, I think you brought up the assumption of being against vaccines as a negative thing."

Wrong. I originally brought up vaccines as an honest question to find out whether John hated Health Canada on all things, or if he was selective in the ways he thought Health Canada was evil (that was in an earlier post). He declined to answer, so I brought it up again in a different way hoping to get an answer. Still hasn't happened, but that's not important anyhow.

"My posts in reply to him I can really see are lacking my inteligence."

Woah, did you just admit that your posts here are unintelligent? Oh no, let me guess - you're normally so intelligent that even your posts here that are lacking your normal intelligence (because of my power to drain it, apparantly) are still beyond everything else written here. Damn, I thought I had you.

"I have to abandon this post." "I do realize that I will no longer be posting in this feed"

Somehow I doubt that, but I'll accept the TKO for now.

"what is 30%...1000 cells or what?..."

You seem to confuse questions with statements. That was a question. It wasn't answered. I would still honestly like to know how many circulating CD34+ stem cells there are in the blood, and how many more there are after stem enhance. In absolute numbers, not percentages. I've already given my analysis on how the 30% is a misleading number in this comment towards the bottom. Hint: if I have 6% of a dollar, and I increase that by 30% my ACTUAL total increase in wealth is 2 cents (2 percent). Read the paper, look at the numbers. THAT'S what the 30% means, except it's talking about a 30% increase on a much smaller percentage.

"Tip: the focal point is stem some research on those....and you'll realize why the product is so amazing."

I've studied stem cells, I've worked with stem cells and I have a reasonable knowledge about how they work. The 'Helps support...' statement is vague because it neither indicates what 'optimal stem cell physiology' is, nor in what way the product 'helps support' it. You seem to assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that optimal stem cell physiology just means more circulating. Is it possible to have too many circulating? Can that lead to problems? What IS the optimal number of stem cells in circulation?

"StemEnhance doesn't claim to do jack shit except support the natural release of your adult stem cells."

StemEnhance claims to support the release of adult stem cells - and they have weak evidence of a modest and transient increase in circulating stem cells. StemEnhance also claims that these cells will travel to tissues 'where they are most needed' and assist in 'maintenance of optimal health' - claims that they don't have evidence for. They also imply that StemEnhance will 'provide a feeling of mental energy', act as an anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory, and boost the immune system. (e3Live, a similar product, does make many more specific health claims as I've discussed before)

I also found this gem on the StemEnhance website: "The novelty of the concept of using endogenous release of bone
marrow stem cells to support optimal health is paralleled by a scarcity of data linking the
magnitude of mobilization with physiological relevance." So StemEnhance themselves admit that data on the physiological relevance is scarce. Not to mention the other claim they make about only embryonic stem cells have been linked to abberant growth that I debunked in this comment about half way down.

Regardless, while StemEnhance MAY increase the number of circulating stem cells, that the people who take it are healthier is unsubstantiated (and no, testimonials do not count as evidence for reasons I've already gone into).

"You guys should throw out some life experiences to support your claims. Kamel is just...well nothing on life's radar."

The amount of money you make doesn't support your claims. The kind or value of websites you maintain doesn't support your claims. The car you drive, or house you live in, or sexiness of your girlfriend doesn't support your claims. Facts do. Clinical trials do. Peer reviewed scientific literature does.

I may not be big on "life's radar" but I'm certainly on it enough to get your attention, and John's.

"I hate braggin..."
I certainly doubt that.
but when the ignorance of someone like Kamel is displayed it almost forces me to it.
That fact that you're only ALMOST forced but do it anyway would seem to suggest that you don't hate it so much. Even your insults have logical contradictions!

John's points? They may be valid if we were having a different argument, but they have nothing to do with the efficacy of StemEnhance. Nothing. I agree this is just going in circles. The reason it's going in circles is because you and the rest of the snake-oil men still haven't risen to the challenge underlying the original post: provide scientific evidence that StemEnhance improves the healthiness of people (for example, optimal tissue functioning - one of the claims). I ask for scientific evidence. You respond with testimonial. I ask for scientific evidence. You respond with attacks on health canada and the FDA. I ask for scientific evidence. You respond with personal attacks on me. The circle stops with either you provide scientific evidence (duh) or I stop asking for it. Since that was the point of the whole discussion (despite how often we got off track) I'm not going to stop asking, so the ball is in your court. I naively and optimistically still wait for the evidence, but realistically I only expect you to make fun of my mother then brag about how big your television is. Please, Alex - disappoint me.

"Well I know if i ever see Kamel, he would be decked in a quick second."
Let me remind you what you said in your first visit here: "But i do realize people have MUCH more confidence to bash on the internet." And with that delicious piece of irony, I wish you goodnight.

Anonymous said...

10 places in the global earth? my goodness, have you even tried the exotic carrot from the earthy ground? you're so very worldly.
I would like to see the promised evidence on stemenhance as well. Peer Reviewed Papers please, not propoganda

Anonymous said...

Now if they could only appreciate the fact that selling an unproven and untested medication like stem enhance, is not only misleading (and borderline fraudulent) but can also be a health hazard. Even when there are no claims on the product, the poeple selling them and the implied efficacy will make poeple think they can rely on it, thus avoiding conventional medecine, which has been tested and proven to work. The truth is we cannot be sure this product is safe, and there is ZERO evidence supporting ANY beneficial effect on health. That is why we'll continue highlighting frauds like this on the bayblab, because we have the knowledge and the training and thus the obligation to prevent sick poeple from getting duped by guys like you. I'm sure some of you even beleive in your own lies, but that doesn't make them real, that's just self-delusion. And one day, the laws will change and the police will come knocking at your door, or the doors of your boss.

brianna said...

I know a really famous doctor that studies mushrooms and knows everything about them and how they can save the world, and his dog had three legs and took StemPets and his leg grew back. If THAT'S not evidence for you, karmel, then screw YOU because you don't look healthy and your stem cells aren't going to the right tissues and THAT'S why you love the FDA and will have a huge wedding and make Health Canada jealous. DIG IT!!!

Anonymous said...

Here's a change of topic:

else think christian looks like george clooney?

john said...

Heh alex don't worry i know how you feel don't get sucked into dark energy,keep doing what your doing,i know i don't have to prove what iam doing but im now working with some of the top scientist and good natural doctors and kamel is right he is looking for that scientific stuff and im gathering it all trust me on this and i will present it to them all 400 to 600 pages and more i hope there ready to read it.There are huge clinical and scientific studies been done now in australia and other parts of the world from real scientist and there all new findings just hang in there and they will come ,in the meantime whats important is arguements that get you frustrated just leads to disesase so do not get sucked into it just keep doing your work,you see FDA,health canada in general just do not understand much about energy and quantam physics etc there basically lost and confused and will one day catch up its not there fault have you seen the people that work there just go to its not there fault that they think wonder bread and twinkie diet is the real thing,basically what im getting at the enviroment needs help and evrybody is panicking about cleaning it up but guess what it won't happen until we clean our bodies up,you see you clean within to clean without.Unfortunately after many blood work tests and mineral analysis and toxin test in peoples bodies 90% of them including Mr anonymous and kamel are full of toxins,and if there willing to take a scientific clinical study on that i will send them to some of the best in the world so they can see exactly whats going on,now kamel is just looking for science to back it up and thats it then he will be quiet,now mr.Anonymous the only thing coming out of your mouth well i do not what to get into it but i wonder what goes into your body on a daily basis,so my point here for you is no the cops won't come knocking they will be searching very soon,because the system has failed us are medical system well it sucks.There is no science in nature there is none in 3rd world countries where there is no money there either hardly no medical hospitals,places like the himalayas think what are those people doing in North america well how about were the sickest nation in the world with some of the most money ever,so why is the system failing well i will leave it to kamel and anonymous to figure that out in school which continues to fail us but things are changing and people are waking up so i do believe the system will get better and they will begin to understand and appreciate natural products like stemenhance and thousands of others,but it will get a little worser before it gets better.I will return to the post after i gather all the science for kamel and for you anonymous a closed mind and a closed heart is not the answer why would you want cops to come knocking on peoples doors and take there rights away,would you want someone to do that to you.We are here to heal and to tell you the truth are far away from that because most people are functioning on closed hearts,and until that comes to an end we will have more problems than the medical system.cheers

john said...

Oyea we are the sickest nation the world USA and canada,i wonder what these 3rd world countries and other places are doing,no science oyea they do eat algae and mushrooms and plants hardly any meat and pesticides and they don't argue about whats good for you or not because they follow the laws of nature,science cannot explain that yet can they.

john said...

But these 3rd world nations etc seem to be living longer healthier lives than us,they do not even know what diabetes or MS are,they never even heard of these but here we are mostly everybody having diabetes or don't even know but they either have it or are borderline,i can guarantee after testing MR.anonymous and Kamel while doing clinical studies that they most likely do,and Mr.anonymous anybody who claims conventional medicine is proven that it works well there goes your creditability where the hell did find that out from a fucking book,iam sure Kamel your not going to buy that one maybe you can pass him the video i sent you the other day to him so he can watch and that video wasn't has harsh as some other ones i got from doctors who actually admitted that it was correct.And once again MR.Anonymous excuse me but why do you bring up small penises all the time,"hmmmm"does not seem like thru all these posts that anything you say has any value like actually take a deep breathe relax and think for a moment the nonsense coming out of your mouth,if i was the producer of this blog well lets just say you would of been ejected after the first few words that came out of your mouth.Kamel your cool and i understand how you feel but clinical studies have been done on AFA and tons more on there way so just be patient and they will come.And no i have not been vaccinated and i do not believe in them.cheers

Anonymous said...

malnutrition, aids, famine, malaria. Much longer indeed. You just made that up, again. Where's the proof?

Anonymous said...

Quick Google search for average life expectancy:
North America: 77 years
Africa:54 years

Source: Population Reference Bureau. 2001 World Population Data Sheet. Washington, DC: Population Reference Bureau, 2001.

North America had the longest life expectancy in the world in 2001.

But you won't even read, or acknoweldge things that condradict your B.S.

- Adam

john said...

which par of africa and did he you read books again,or bullshit research,are you being anonymous again,also himalayas how about over 100,and like i said i can guarantee its 54 good years,in canada you said maybe 16 quality years then see ya later,are is dropping every year,and the way were going well we be worse than africa if we don't get it together,famine malaria those are easy to clean up,aids well i have a good story on that one,but im talking about diabetes Parkinsons,MS,cancer we have close to the highest,depression,lupus caused by aspartame what don't you do research on that,you see anonymous your the one whose full of shit you still never answered my question on what you put in your body,do you want to be part of my clinical study we will put together on all the heavy metals.parasites,pesticides,PCB'S,Myco toxins,,yeasts,molds that i guarantee is in your body in large amounts because of the way you think,no im here to spread the truth and guess what i know scientist who are way ahead of you and are opened minded and understand whats going on in the population control system who have your mind wrapped up nicely,so if there is any bullshit around its you,i know who iam you don't even want to put your name down because your whole life has been anonymous,and 77 years come on thats terrible we can do better right,no lets keep vaccinated and drugging people,oh are medical system even admitted our drugs cause over 100,000 deaths a year,i think its more there just trying to look a little better,but health products have never caused one single death "ever" so who iam going to have faith in and do you have a nutritional background,do you understand herbs,plants and native natural living or do you just read books all the time and pretend you know i challenge you anytime on nutrition,i studied for over 20 years with the best in the world way ahead of your time,chinese medicine,herbology,rainforest medicinal plants,organic and biodynamic growing and lots of energetic medicine etc but let me see scientific clinical studies does not proove that any of this works right,dude do me a favour stay anonymous but one day your truth will have to come out so while iam helping hundreds of thousands people with there lives and i have proof and your still in school eating wonderbread and drinking candida and depressed with 5 cents in your pocket,i will continue and move on and have fun and enjoy LIFE do you know what that means because even know people think there alive well there basically dead or very close to it.

kamel said...

John! I missed you, buddy! Things were getting dull around here, though they really would be more interesting if you had more to say than your usual 'Health Canada is evil' crap. It also might be nice if you used real facts instead of imaginary ones. I supposed I do have to consider the fact that you're just out there to get me going and are just continuing on to get a response without really believing what you're saying. Still, if that's the case, far be it from me to disappoint...

I'm fine with my 'dark energy' if it means that fewer people buy into your brand of unproven quackery. I'll certainly take it over the 'dark energy' of fleecing people out of their hard earned cash and preying on the sick and desperate with a miracle cure that hasn't been shown to deliver. You keep going on about your 400-600 pages of clinical trials and peer-reviewed data (That's significantly less than the 4000 to 5000 pages you promised earlier! I'm disappointed). Since you've been 'gathering' it for weeks now, you must have at least SOME put together. Sure you can send me 5-10 pages as a 'sneak peek' while you gather the rest?? No? Didn't think so.

"arguements that get you frustrated just leads to disesase"
For anybody who is joining the conversation late, apparantly I'm some sort of super-villain. Not only do I have the power to make people dumber, but now I can also cause disease with my 'frustrating' logic and dark energy! Maybe I can get the creators of Heroes to write in a character for me.

"health canada in general just do not understand much about energy and quantam physics "
I'm confused now, John. Are you saying there's a quantum physics explanation for the efficacy of StemEnhance? I would certainly like to hear it.

John, part of the problem is that you take one 'fact' and make gigantic leaps of faith to draw totally unrelated conclusions. Hypothetical: I go to one of your experts and they do a blood test and it's full of "toxins". What does that say about StemEnhance? Nothing. It says that my blood is full of "toxins". I could be the most unhealthy person in the world, but that doesn't mean anything with relation to StemEnhance. Hell, it doesn't even say anything about the health care system considering I haven't seen a doctor in years. Out of curiosity, what are the specific "toxins" in my blood that I should be worried about? Do I have to see YOUR specialist? Why not send me a list of things to get checked for, a bottle of StemEnhance for a before and after trial and I just see a specialist here in the hospital where I work?

I have nothing against proper nutrition. I have nothing against natural products. I do have something against natural products that make untested (or untestable) claims.

Regarding your claims that we are the sickest country in the world, I really would like to know how you're measuring that. As I said before in this lengthy comment that couldn't be further from the truth. According to the World Health Organization we rank near the top in terms of average level of health. Certainly there are sick people, but compared to third world countries like you seem to think?? In terms of a basic measurement such as life expectancy, as Adam pointed out (It was posted as 'anonymous' but clearly signed with his name) North America is ahead of Africa. Which third world countries were YOU thinking of? Canada ranks in the top 15 overall in terms of life expectancy (top 10 for females) with not a single African or third world country ahead of them. Where is the data from? I got it from the US Census Bureau, and figures are for the year 2007. You're clearly wrong when you claim they live longer lives.

I honestly don't know anything about the rates of MS, diabetes, Parkinsons or whatever else in third world countries (I'll ask again what specific countries are you referring to?). If they're different or not, again, has nothing to do with StemEnhance since I'm sure none of those people can afford the expense. If they're different, you can't even make the claim that it's because of nutrition! If the WHO report I linked to earlier is to be believed, likely rates are low because you need access to health care to be diagnosed! No medical care means no diagnosis means you die from your disease in anonymity and don't get to become a statistic. Even more than that, diseases like Parkinsons and cancer are primarily late-onset and considered diseases of aging, meaning they don't manifest themselves until later years (sure there are cases of early-onset like Michael J. Fox, but generally it's late in life that these diseases arise). If you die at 40 (which is the life expectancy in some of these countries) you don't develop Parkinsons because you DON'T LIVE LONG ENOUGH.

"anybody who claims conventional medicine is proven that it works well there goes your creditability "
Again, conventional medicine is evidence-based. Your alternative treatments are not. Even if we accept that there is little evidence to support conventional medicine (which I don't) it's still infinitely more evidence than the alternative.

"if i was the producer of this blog well lets just say you would of been ejected after the first few words that came out of your mouth"
Obviously I don't have a problem with people expressing themselves here. If I can allow with Alex and his long personal insults towards me, I can surely allow a short anonymous insult (that I actually thought was kind of funny). Your endorsement of censoring what people say here certainly doesn't jibe with your defense of rights in your earlier comment.

kamel said...

Just some fun facts about longevity: 6 of the 10 oldest people alive in the world right now are American (including the #1). All of the top 10 are women. Nobody from a Himalayan country makes the list.

In terms of the oldest people who have ever lived, it's a French woman who comes first, followed by a Japanese man (whose claim is disputed and may have, in fact, been younger). The next three to round out the top 5? American, American, Canadian.

Anonymous said...

I took stemenhance and it cured my malaria.

john said...

Basically i do not trust the books and iam sorry there are older people in the himalayas that are older than what is documented,these are the same people with the stats who say conventional medicine works,and iam going to buy into that show me the evidence or is it made up by the pharmaceutical companies i can't believe you buy into that.My dad is about 350 pounds his stomach i massive,the doctor told him he had a very clean colon you gotta be kidding me thats whats going on out there.Oh i forgot there are even older people in Equador that are not documented in the mountains so what stats are you looking at,we have the most hospitals,the most sick people meaning disease state,almost everyone takes some kind of a prescription,there is not one pharmaceutical product out there that works and there is not one out there that is safe period,when has a natural product ever hurt anyone and why all of a sudden has the pharmaceutical companies satrting to buy out health companies and why are they getting involved all of a sudden could it be that people are starting to see that the medical system sucks and its failing us,i just got back from kamloops to interview the number one lawyer in the canada fighting health canada,he has already beaten them several times and once worked on there side to see how dark and stupid they really are,he had alot of crazy things to say that would shock you,if you want to call him or interview him well he will fill you in on whats going on,don't forget we are getting better in longeveity over the years because of the popularity of natural health products it has grown so much in the past 10 years and will become a trillion dollar industry very soon hmmmm i wonder why big pharma wants in on this can is it possible that they finally realize there products suck and don't work.Why don't you get off your ass and find the people who no whats really going on because iam already on it talking to all of them.So once again here are the stats and percentages,why is the health industry with natural products growing so fast and have never hurt anyone ever,then you got the pharmaceutical industry admiiting to hundreds of thousands of deaths and there industry is on the verge of collapsing but you seem to put your faith in them,heh im well known in the health industry and have thousands of people,pro sports players and natural doctors seek my opinion and ive helped tons of them what are you doing with your life besides just hanging around waiting and waiting for what,studies.When people are calling and telling me there feeling better and happier and getting great blood results well iam proud of that,and here since your a good scientist and iam a good nutritionalist maybe we can get together one day and do scientific experiments and clinical studies on people and see the results and you will be more than surprised to see how great these natural products are and how they are helping people why else do you think Big pharma wants in.

brianna said...

John, while I appreciate your conciousness and light energy, I'm curious to know where you are getting your facts. How do you know about these undocumented cases of oldest living people? Did you actually travel around the global Earth to meet them?

kamel said...

"Basically i do not trust the books"
And I don't trust fairy stories. I'm certainly not suggesting that people believe everything they read. If anything, I think the impression I've given here is that people should be skeptical, educate themselves and evaluate claims on their own. That goes either way - both conventional and alternative medicine. Sorry that you don't trust 'the books' (what books are we talking about here anyway?) or the education system or whatever it is that you're actually against but if I'm given the choice between believing a book written by experts, scrutinized by others and approved for the classroom over the unsupported ramblings on an internet website, guess which is going to get more weight.

"iam sorry there are older people in the himalayas that are older than what is documented"
Looks like Brianna beat me to the punch, but that statement just doesn't make sense. If there are older people in the himalayas, then the must be documented - otherwise how would you know about them or how old they are? That goes for your Ecuadorians as well. Anyhow, I was just throwing those facts out for fun. Regardless of whether there are people living in the himalayas to 150, you have to admit that people in Canada and the US are living long lives which is directly contrary to your claim that people in third world countries live longer, healthier lives. You still neglect to even clarify what countries you're talking about or where your numbers are coming from.

"these are the same people with the stats who say conventional medicine works"
Are you saying that longevity claims are part of some massive, global conspiracy puppeteered by Big Pharma? That just reeks of crazy. They're in so deep that they'll doctor birth certificates of 120 year olds to provide to Guinness or whoever so an American will come #3 on a list of longest lived people ever? Do you know how that sounds?

"show me the evidence or is it made up by the pharmaceutical companies"
OK, if you want to see data from cancer clinical trials take a look here. To search by drug name or disease you can go to this site to get links to the study results. Or if you like, go to and do a search including "[si]". Those sites are by no means comprehensive, but I think they'll give you more than enough evidence of drug efficacy and safety (including possible side-effects). All rigorous science and peer reviewed. There you go, all in a 5 minute search. It's been a month now and you still haven't shown me anything?

Now, you'll probably claim that it's all made up by the pharmaceutical companies or disbelieve it for some other reason (maybe a leprechaun told you it was made up, who knows). To that I'll pre-emptively say 3 things:
a)Whether conventional medicine works or not remains irrelevant in a discussion of whether StemEnhance works and what evidence exists that it does. You can't seem to understand that. 'A' not working doesn't automatically mean 'B' does. I've tried to make that point a dozen times here, but I'm clearly failing so since you're going to keep bringing it up I have to add b)If you don't believe the content of any of the studies you can find in the above links, tell me why. Pick one and tell me why you don't think it's scientifically sounds. I did that for the single piece of published research behind StemEnhance, why don't you do it for one of the thousands of peer reviewed clinical trial results? It's all a big conspiracy by the pharmaceutical companies? Well, at least they have data out there for you to scrutinze and criticize. Which brings me to c)You seem to not believe in conventional medicine at all because you think it's made up. But your argument then relies on me believing your word that evidence exists and that that evidence is NOT made up. Can't you see the problem in that logic? Why shouldn't I cast the same disbelieving eye on anything that comes out of your camp? For that matter, why don't you? If your mystery evidence ever surfaces I'll look at it and consider it - but I could just as easily follow your example of declaring it a conspiracy, made up by the natural health product companies, and throw it on the trash heap. I won't, but I could.

"so what stats are you looking at,we have the most hospitals,the most sick people meaning disease state"
I told you exactly where I got my stats from - the World Health Organization (who give Canadians high marks in average level of health) and the US Census Bureau. Where do you get YOUR facts? Seriously, I want a source. A reliable one. Not a movie someone posted on YouTube. Not word of mouth from some unnamed "world renowned" mouthpiece. I want to know exactly where you get the idea that people in third world countries live longer, healthier lives or that there's an undocumented population in the Himalayas that has an average lifespan over 100 years old.

"there is not one pharmaceutical product out there that works"
If you were diagnosed with a treatable cancer (of course that can't happen, you use StemEnhance!) would you pass on chemotherapy and just keep munching your algae? If you had to go under the knife, would you snack on kelp or trust in the modern anaesthetics we have? If you had an organ transplant for some reason, would you take the prescribed drugs to prevent rejection or would some tasty seaweed do the trick? Do you honestly believe that there isn't a single working drug that exists? While you keep making wild statements like that, this discussion can't move forward. I don't think pharmaceuticals or conventional medicine are perfect. I don't deny that there are natural products that probably work. I agree that if pharm companies are buying the natural companies it's because they think it might work too. And I guarantee those companies will test the natural products, demonstrate rigorously that they work and find how and why so they may be able to improve on them. That SOME MIGHT work certainly doesn't mean that ALL DO work. And it doesn't remove the requirement of evidence before making health claims.

"I just got back from kamloops to interview the number one lawyer in the canada fighting health canada ... he had alot of crazy things to say"

I certainly don't doubt that!

I'm guessing we're talking about Shawn Buckley again? The same guy you declined to give me contact info on before because he was 'too busy'? Either way, pass on his number or email address and I'll be happy to get in touch with him.

"since your a good scientist and iam a good nutritionalist maybe we can get together one day and do scientific experiments and clinical studies on people and see the results"

That sounds like a great idea. Until then, please refrain from making unsubstantiated health claims about the products you sell.


KAMEL-I know this responce, is delayed, but I dont spend every waking moment of my life on here, so I cant exactly keep up with you guys.

FIRST OFF- I did not quote yota haha, that is so lame. You should feel dumb for knowing that word for word. Never even seen star wars actualy, I'm just a damn good writer I suppose.
You guys are pathetic, and alex, they are not even worth talking to at this point. you guys should go find another forum to destroy.

if you really need to see a pic in order to judge my intellegence then so be it.
peace out!

john said...

Brianna,i have not but my close friend gio spends alot of time there,my buisness partner spent 1 year in the equadorian mountains,there are several books written about the himalayas from scientist who actually go there to study what there doing,what really amazes my friend is how strong they are well into old age.

john said... he can inform you on whats going on with health canada and Natural health products.he is an amazing person

john said...

DR.Deborah wood is a PHD,immunologist based out of australia who has used the AFA with outstanding results i believe over the last 10 years,she has an idea of all the clinical studies that have been done,her email address is,like i said these are for the back up claims on my product e3live,i do not do clinical studies on stemenhance there doing there own thing but i believe in the product because i know what the e3live has done to hundreds of thousands of people and the extract is taking from AFA.Deborah is an experienced scientist of 15 years i believe.I know that e3live has backed up and proven there claims in the united states and have had several scientist do clinical studies also have had some pharmaceutical companies very intrested in the AFA.You can call e3 live and talk to the master harvesters and they can inform you of the clinical studies already done on AFA.

john said...

Heh liz i think your beautiful,and for a 19 year old you are definetely on it girl,keep up the good work.We need more of you,sending you lots of high vibes.

Anonymous said...

Hi John,

So I think I've finally figured it out. I am to trust only the books you say I can trust (like the book about the old people in the himalayas). And am I only supposed to believe the studies YOU say I am to believe? Anything Kamel is refering too is an untrust worthy source according to you? I may not have a PhD yet but I can think for myself.

Thanks for finally putting some names to the experts you keep referring to. I hope the owners of this blog do contact them, though if you wanted to convince potential customers of you product, especially customers with a strong background in academic science, you might want to give actual references (i.e. journal name, issue number, authors, title of study) to studies that have been done so we can read them ourselves.

kamel said...

The Yoda thing was a joke - not that funny, I guess - but I don't know why anybody should feel dumb for KNOWING something. And no, I don't need to see a pic to judge your intelligence - I have your spelling for that! :P

Thanks for the contact info. I'll be sure to put it to use. When I'm corresponding with them, how should I refer to you? Since you personally know at least Mr. Buckley that might help in gettng my questions answered. I'm sure if I begin with 'John who commented on my blog said...' my inquiries won't get very far.

Oh, and just so everbody reading this is clear - you don't do clinical studies on e3live either.

john said...

For shawn buckley he is just a lawyer who represents health companies,he does not know much about AFA,but one of his scientist friends who is a food scientist named robert jackman is aware of these.He is more involved in whats happening with health canada and NHP,and helped constitute bill 420 which protects are rights to have natural health products not labelled drugs etc,he knows me as johnnie from e3live

john said...

MR.Anonymous my product sells from word of mouth,its the number 1 selling green food product in canadian stores,hundreds of thousands people take it all over the world in 30 countries,from doctors,pro sports players,famous actors,juice bars all over,the creditibilty of the product is beyond what you think,basically we can't keep up with the demand,are testimonials are up the ying yang,i don't care but what the people think is what counts and if its working thats all that really matters,we don't make claims on stem cells but the claims we do make i know we can prove them and already have with the studies.

john said...

For DR Deborah Wood,i was introduced to her just recently from a good friend in austalia who has been feeding million dollar race horses e3 live all winning race horses,she is working with other top scientist,she is an immunologist for 15 years and understands nutrition on a cellular level,she is a scientist.The problem here with scientist is most of them do not understand nutrition,there diets are not even good,and most of them are part of the pharmaceutical companies i can send you articles on that,what we need now more than ever is to get 3rd party scientist who are not involved with the health industry or big pharma and start to do these studies.Look how do you explain going to south america in the rainforest with a shaman and take some kind of a plant medicine like ayahuasca and totally come home with no cancer,i know of several people who have done this,but these things never get documented now can you imagine if the whole world knew about this what would happen to the medical industry.

Anonymous said...

you can scroll down to the feb 11th interview with rory mullin my friend,he is the head athletic trainer of the Toronto raptors,he talks about how science is trying to catch up to art,and is behind in alot of things,they cannot explain spirit,and spiritual aspects,miracles etc,thats what im trying to explain to you guys that science just ain't cutting it anymore and to tell you the truth hanging out with the best of the best is nobody really cares anymore about science,because its all mind and no heart,your going to see more of this very soon,basically science needs to catch up.

kamel said...

Anonymous (I'm guessing it's John based on the writing style), as I've mentioned before being an athletic trainer makes him no more a science expert than my science degrees make me an athletic trainer. Still, I agree that there are still things science cannot (yet) explain. I've written about that before here. That said, I don't think how AFA works and what it does fall into that category. You make claims. They can be tested. It's as simple as that. It's my position that the claims you're making SHOULD be tested and proven before foisting a product on an unsuspecting public.

You can't possibly be claiming that your AFA product relies on "miracles and spiritual aspects" that science can't explain. Not that those claims do anything about testability. Regardless of the reason - be it mobilized stem cells, miracles or pixie dust - a claim that your product can delay or reverse aging and repair cell damage can be tested. If you really believe that it's something miraculous or spiritual, why bother with the pill at all? Why not kick back and wait for the rainbows and daydreams to 'eliminate toxins, increase energy and boost your immune system'. Obviously you believe it's doing SOMETHING or you wouldn't take it. You've just gotten to the point where my exahustive demands for what and how have left you with nothing buy hand-wavy arguments about spiritual aspects and magic spells.

And nobody really cares about science anymore? As you're typing on your computer and refrigerating your e3Live from harvested AFA (a process even the website calls a science) that claim just rings hollow.

Again you have it backwards, it's not science that needs to catch up - it's your brand of wishy-washy pseudoscience that does. Sure there are still things that science is wrestling with but they're all much deeper than 'what happens to my body when I drink pond slime?' - and science IS trying to answer those questions. This isn't the dark ages anymore and we don't need to worship the full moon or tremble in fear of a solar eclipse, and we certainly don't need to take the medical claims of a natural product at face value without seeing any evidence. The science SHOULD be done, the science CAN be done, and according to you the science HAS been done so it's about time, as the saying goes, to put up or shut up.

Anonymous said...

"thats what im trying to explain to you guys that science just ain't cutting it anymore and to tell you the truth hanging out with the best of the best is nobody really cares anymore about science"

who are these "the best of the best" and what are you criteria for determining their 'bestness'? And are they so hypocritical to claim that "science just ain't cutting it anymore" while they type away on their laptops and blackberry's? You're hypocracy reeks almost as badly as your poor logic.

john said...

I was actually just listening to these guys,Dr.Fred Bell former nasa scientist.Maybe the best spiritual scientist we have.During this interview for whatever reason,they brought up Blue Green Algae an amazing regenerative food,and they broght up the stem cells.So the more research that i do on the computer more and more of these dudes are just understnding what really is going on.Now i would rather listen to this guy who speaks with honesty and integrity and has more scientific experience than just about all of them out there that understands how blue green algae actually works and fuctions in the body.More amd more will continue to surface.

kamel said...

Thanks for the link. I may have to do a blog post on this guy sometime in the future. Don't get too excited though - I doubt it would be as complimentary as you would like.

I had hoped that if you had taken at least one thing away from our discussion it would be that just because somebody says something - even a scientist, doctor or other 'world-renowned' expert - that doesn't mean it's true. (I've also written about that elsewhere on this blog, here, in a post describing scientists that hit the pinnacle of their profession - winning a Nobel prize - but who had some out there and just plain wrong ideas).

I feel like every argument starts back at square one with you. There's no sense that you even understand what I'm saying as you don't engage the ideas being presented. Yet I'll continue to waste my breath: Testimonial does not replace evidence. Granted, we all take some things on the word of an authority. If a doctor tells me that aspirin will ease a headache, I believe him, not having seen the data that shows that ASA relieves pain. Obviously it's too cumbersome to evaluate every claim made by every person in a rigorous manner (fortunately we have a thing called 'peer-review' that requires evidence to pass the scrutiny of others before it's accepted). The difference between the above scenario and yours is that if I was some sort of aspirin skeptic I could go back and find the research that showed its efficacy, mode of action, etc. evaluate it on its merit and come to my own conclusions. Your version of 'science' doesn't meet the standards of evidence, let alone the standard of peer-review. It relies on the impassioned pleas of confidence men who distract you with pseudoscience while prying cash from your billfold.

I looked into your Dr. Fred Bell. Here are some other tidbits about him so you can properly examine your claim of 'honesty and integrity' (aside from the question of what makes him an expert in stem cell biology or nutrition):

-claims to have built the world's first time machine
-filed an official complaint that the US government was covering up known extraterrestrial activity
-claims to be a "a contactee to a Pleiadean group of extraterrestrial humanoids" (from 500 light-years away!)
-patented the 'nuclear receptor' which I can't even begin to describe but you can read about here (basically it uses gemstones to change the body's energy vibrations)
-invented the 'Andromedan Holographic Projector' that allows the user to maniuplate space and time.
-invented the 'X-1 Healing Machine' that can be used to heal injuries in seconds instead of months (why doesn't every hospital have one of these?)

"I would rather listen to this guy who speaks with honesty and integrity and has more scientific experience than just about all of them out there that understands how blue green algae actually works and fuctions in the body."

Now maybe I'm misreading you, but in essence what you've said here is that you'd rather believe somebody who is passionate than somebody who knows what they are talking about. As I've said before, you shouldn't have to rely only on what someone says but given that choice in any question of science I'll take head over heart and dispassionate facts over impassioned fiction.


John first off thanks :)
..yeah Im trying, for only being 19
and thanks for the high vibes, although I dont know that there is much more I can contribute to this with the constant critizism from certain people.
Kamel, I know I cannot spell, but that gives you nothing to base my intellegence on, it is simply that, I suck at spelling. Einstein himself claimed to be an awful speller. I think the meaning of the writing is more important than the actual writing itself.
Im just gonna stop writing about stem enhance, and start posting weekly poems haha.

john said...

Kamel one intresting point,how come i never see any testimonials abput people taking scientific proven pharmaceuticals all i here over and over again is people getting sick and dying but once again is it possible that scientsist get paid off by big pharma to keep there mouth shut,vioxx which killed 50,000 americains and proved to be safe by our So called amazing scientist,and now they actually want to bring it back to the market"am i smelling population control again" I think its safe to say now that people are starting to find out that these pharmaceuticals do not work "period" How come the natural health product is said to reach the trillion dollar industry "hmmm another reason Big Pharma smells money there also" now why woud i want to trust this science when or if you have a spiritual conscious we know that science that backs up pharmaceutical drugs is full of lies.Lets put the two against each other natural health products against pharma drugs we all know theres no contest,no deaths compared to millions "i rest my point" i would rather take a chance and lose some money on a natural health product that does not work than spend more money on a drug that gurantees not to work but also a good chance of dying,we all have the scientific statistics to prove that.Another point here if you yourself to a product than all of a sudden you start to experience changes,meaning your feeling better,sleeping better etc would that not matter to you,how does science explain testimonials,if millions of people are saying there feeling better taking a natural product than we have to hold that accountable.

kamel said...

Sorry for the shot about your spelling. It was a joke, and I hardly think 'constant criticism' is an appropriate characterization particularly when your first post here described us as ignorant, which you followed up by calling us pathetic. Not to mention the abuse Alex was spewing. Forgive me if I slip with a snide comment or two myself.

One interesting point. Actually, it's the same point I've made over and over again. Tested pharmaceuticals have clinical trial data. THOSE are the "testimonials".

You bring up Vioxx. Actually, I brought it up ages ago and you're only now getting around to discussing it. Vioxx is a case of a drug being withdrawn from the market due to concerns about increased risk of heart attack and stroke associated with long-term, high-dosage use. I have no idea where you got the idea that it's responsible for 50000 deaths, but I can only assume that it's another one of the "facts" you invent to make it sound like you have a compelling argument. I'm not going to get into a detailed discussion about the reasons for withdrawal of Vioxx from the market, or it's possible return, but I will use Vioxx to make the following points:

1)If Big Pharma is involved in such a far reaching consipiracy, how is it that Vioxx was removed from the marketplace? According to you, Merck should have been powerful and evil enough to keep it out there, rather than lose the revenues from one of their best selling products.

2)Since you choose to paint all pharmaceuticals with the 'evil' brush based on the Vioxx example should we do the same with natural products? You've already said that there are a lot of terrible natural products out there so shall we throw them all out?

3)Continuing with the same idea, even your own class of natural products, AFA, have been under fire in the past for contamination with microcystin toxins. They solved the problem and got the product out there again. But you seem to want pharmaceuticals out of pharmacies based on a product withdrawal from the market. Does that make sense?

4)The downside of having to provide evidence of safety and efficacy of a pharmaceutical is that you have to report the bad events as well (downside to the company, not to the consumer). If AFA increased your chance of heart attack or slowly depleted your bone marrow of stem cells you would never find out about it. You would likely only hear about acute events

Regardless, my concerns with your class of products has never been about safety. At least not in the sense that it actively harms you. My concern has always been the lack of evidence for the scientific and medical claims it makes because a)people shell out their cash expecting a real effect when none has been proven and b)people expecting a miracle effect may abandon existing, effective treatments (it's in this sense that it's unsafe).

I don't think it's safe to say that pharmaceuticals "do not work 'period'." I'd also be surprised if you never made use of the medical establishment.

Again, you refuse to apply the arguments you're making to yourself. Big Pharma pays off people and lies to make money, but Big Natural, the trillion dollar industry, doesn't? What makes your industry so immune to possible corruption? Probably StemEnhance.

You claim 'no deaths'. For the sake of argument I'll accept the zero number though considering how liberal you are with inventing numbers to support your claims that's probably a mistake...
First of all that's "no documented deaths". Now why might that be? As tempting as it, I won't indulge in your conspiracy theory method of argument and claim that it's being covered up by a trillion dollar industry, but there are a couple of reasons for that discrepancy. It could be that without documented use (eg. prescriptions) it's impossible to know if a death can be attributed to a natural product. It could be that with no research it's impossible to know if a death can be attributed to a natural product (eg. a heart attack in someone taking Vioxx might be chalked up to the use of the drug, a heart attack in someone known to be taking AFA probably just gets reported as a heart attack. Plus with no clinical trial work to back it up, there's no way to know what the adverse effects might be). It could be that the products we're talking about have no biological effects! Not killing somebody isn't the same as being effective. 'StemEnhance - It won't kill you!' won't move much product as a slogan.

Regarding your 'millions of people', first of all I don't see these millions of testimonials. I've seen some, for sure, but not millions and with so many supposedly out there, I certainly shouldn't be seeing the exact same ones over and over. I've asked this question before, but if millions of people are feeling better, why WOULDN'T the company do a trial, get the data and convince skeptics (like me)? If it so obviously works, all that can do is increase sales. Now I have to question both the science and the business acumen of the people selling this stuff.

How can I explain testimonials? There are a few ways. The most obvious is your favorite: Follow the money. This could mean paid testimonial, but it more likely means that because of the nature of the marketing of these products (MLM/pyramid scheme) the people taking the products are also people selling the products. They have a vested interest in hyping it to sell more and make more money. Another possibility is the placebo effect. Or maybe these people aren't abandoning conventional treatment while taking the product so changes are being misattributed (that's one reason we used controlled study to determine efficacy).

Your argument by numbers approach is akin to saying millions of people claim to have seen Elvis alive, so he must still be. I've said it before: 50 million Elvis fans CAN be wrong.

TruthSeeker said...

It's so typical that people are down on what they're not up on!

When something comes into the market that really makes a difference, we usually see attacks. So, for someone to have attacked it without having done thorough research, without learning enough about stem cells, and for this discussion to have taken place, it should tell people that this product is worth checking into! I have tried many products, and I did my due diligence, unlike the originator of this blog, before I tried this product. I gave it to several members of my family and to animals as well. I chose to see the results myself. Kamel, you know that you cannot do placebo controlled studies on animals. It either works or it doesn't! When you release stem cells in the bloodstream, those stem cells have that innate intelligence to help the body. For so many people and animals to have benefited from it, perhaps you should consider giving it to a loved one who is hurting instead of devoting your energies in spreading unjustified negative comments. Be a good person. Experiment with family members or friends who need help! You'll be pleasantly surprised at the results!

adam said...

oh well if truth seeker tells me that stem cells are a form of intelligence and that i will be pleasantly surprised at the results when I experiment on my loved ones, it must be true.
Perhaps you didn't read the comments truthseeker, but Kamel and others have been asking for proof, not testimonials and speculation from people who don't have the good sense to investigate before dosing their loved ones with products that have no proven value.

brianna said...

The reason that there are no testimonials for pharmaceutical drugs is painfully obvious-- everyone who takes them is dead!! Or too sick to get out of bed to comment. And Health Canada KNOWS about this!! How crazy are THEY??!! Why do scientists make drugs to make people sick, and why do companies approve them?!! And why is the US government concealing the extra-terrestrials and not allowing Dr. Bell to mass produce his healing machine?!!! My vibes are so high right now.

"...those stem cells have that innate intelligence to help the body."
~ TS

kamel said...

Ok, so another commenter doesn't like my 'attacks' and 'unjustified negative comments'. Almost 100 comments later, it's easy to lose sight of what kicked it all off so I went back and re-read the original post I wrote about StemEnhance. Other than the use of the word 'quack', which I admit is inflammatory, the rest of the post briefly examined the piece of data being used to support the biological claims being made (in fact, I even say that the fact that they have data, whatever the quality, puts them ahead of other 'quacks') then asked questions that I would hope any person would ask before taking a product like this (usually those questions are asked and answered in controlled clinical trials). None of those questions, I feel, were unjustified and none have been answered adequately yet.

Since then (from the very first comment), the discussion has contained a large number of insults - mostly from the pro-StemEnhance side, and digressed into discussions of other AFA products (which I'm fine with, StemEnhance falls under that umbrella) and conspiracy theories about the nature of Health Canada and Big Pharma (which I'm not OK with since they have nothing to do with the original question - but that I engage anyway because some of them are blatant falsehoods that shouldn't go unanswered and others demonstrate the giant leaps and faulty logic that go along with the quack territory).

Alex, John and the rest of you have received more patience and politeness from me than you would in a similar discussion on any other science site (and I'm not convinced that's a good thing if it makes your position seem legitimate). Yes, I've slipped with the occasional snide comment. It's hard to keep your head sometimes in the face of such repetitive pseudoscience and personal attack. What's worse is that it makes ME repetitive responding to the exact same arguments over and over again, and that's pretty boring. So unless you come up with some better reasoning, hard evidence or a proper response to the original questions asked you're going to have to deal with my snark. Patience I have in abundance, interest I don't.

I think we've been through this enough times to know how it will play out. I'll pick through your post pointing out how you're misguided and you'll either fail to respond or reply ignoring everything I've said. First off, Truthseeker, please point out where I made unjustified comments regarding StemEnhance in the original post so I can either give justification or withdraw them if they really are out of line.

You start with the standard nonsense implying that because an idea is opposed, it must be true. This idea was dealt with right off the bat when the first commenter, Paul, made a similar point. It's been dealt with again multiple times since. It just doesn't make sense. I oppose your view on StemEnhance. You oppose mine. Which is true?

You question the research I've done, and my knowledge of stem cells. OK, you've done your 'due diligence' - point me to the research that shows it works. Explain to me why my analysis of that piece of data was wrong. The floor is yours, Truthseeker, don't disappoint me! I'm glad you chose to see the results yourself (not so glad you decided to use your family as guinea pigs. If it hasn't been clear to you so far, that's all I want - to see the results for myself, not to hear your personal experience or any other testimonial. So far I've heard all sorts of claims that the results are there, but not even a glimpse of the results themselves. These guys are making claims, they must have been tested, so lets see them. That's been my request from the beginning.

No, animals may not be susceptible to the placebo effect, but they aren't able to give testimonial either. You can certainly do controlled studies with animals to demonstrate an effect objectively. StemEnhance promotes healing? Give an injury, treat one group with StemEnhance and one without and see which heals faster (with the supervision and approval of your institutes animal care facility, of course). StemEnhance delays premature aging? There are mouse models for that as well. Those are crude descriptions of experiments that can easily be done without having to rely a subjective measure of 'wellness'. Then you do placebo controlled studies in humans (no drug would ever go to market based solely on animal evidence). Then once clinical trials have shown it to be safe and effective, it goes to market. The way StemEnhance has gone about it is backwards - go to market first. Backwards isn't even the right word since it implies that they'll go through the steps of clinical trial.

You fail to realize that we're talking about 2 separate claims as well: 1) that the product mobilizes stem cells from the bone marrow. On this point, there is a small amount of data, but it's not very convincing and 2) that the mobilization of stem cells by AFA products promotes healing and healthiness (this claim breaks down into many more specific health claims). On this point there is no data available to review. It's all well and good to release stem cells, but do they have a health effect? All you've told me is that they have 'innate intelligence' to heal the body. Funny how they don't have 'innate intelligence' enough not to promote, say, breast cancer metastasis. (Again, I'm not claiming that StemEnhance causes cancer - that's just an example of why a blanket statement like 'release of stem cells makes you healthy' might not be true).

Truthseeker, I invite you to read the 100 or so comments prior to your own to discover some of the reasons why we don't accept testimonial evidence, why opposition to an idea doesn't make it true and many other objections to the types of arguments you and other StemEnhance supporters put forth.

john said...

Kamel none of the testimonials are paid from my product actually the athletes i usually deal with ask for tousands of dollars for testimonials,they simply love it and feel a huge difference in there life and do it for free,if i gave the e3live to millions of people i can gurantee you a huge percentage of people that love it,were the only company according to my research i maybe wrong that offer 100% money back guranteed up to a year i do not see other companies do that or drug companies i think if you believe in your product or drug you should offer that,that would put the big pharma out of buisness for sure..Did you call dr.debbie in australia,they are about to begin huge clinical studies with people in a controlled setting with there top scientist who were very intrested in there own results taking the AFA.

john said...

And kamel how can you say that a drug goes thru clinical studies for its safety then approved,now i can understand you wanting proof for stemenahnce but that comment was horrible,look at all the drugs that have killed people or made them sick you think health canada,FDA or WHO will reveal that to you why were they approved $$$$$$$$$$$.Research Chopra and health canada.We are entering the information age and the truths are coming out,no more lies.

Anonymous Coward said...

Nice try John, may I remind you that we are not paid by pharmaceutical companies, so in fact as scientists we have no incentive in promoting or discrediting any potential treatment. What we give here is our own professional opinion after having done decade long studies and actually performing lab testing of therapeutics. Kamel in fact is supervised by a famous pioneer in stem cell research. You on the other hand have every reason to be pushing your pills for $$$$$. In fact 50 000 bottles of stemenhance are sold every month so that means you guys sell over 36 million dollars worth of pond scum! All this backed up by a really poor paper with no evidence of efficacy on any disease. On top of that there are really good reasons to believe those bacteria may contain toxins which could potentially be harmful. This has gone too far, you industry needs to be held accountable.

Anonymous Coward said...

That's $36 Million per year, so we're talking hundreds of millions over the years, and the margins must be ridiculous because I'm sure it's not very expensive to harvest bottom-dwelling pond scum. The only better scam would be to sell the lake water straight. But putting it in a pill just looks more legitimate...

kamel said...

You asked why there might be testimonials. That they could be paid testimonials is one of multiple explanations that I gave you. I haven't even seen these so-called athlete testimonials that you claim. All I have to go on is your word that they say what you're telling me. (A testimonial of testimonials? If that's our standard for evidence, we can certainly do much better) And even then, I think I've been pretty thorough in explaining why testimonials don't count as evidence of efficacy.

I haven't heard back from Dr. Debbie yet, but you say they 'are about to begin huge clinical studies'. I thought studies were already done? Are you changing your tune? It is still my position, and will continue to be, that studies are to be done BEFORE offering a product on the market.

Your conspiracy theories, while entertaining, are way off base. I don't know how many times I have to explain that I by no means think Health Canada is a perfect agency but whether they are good or not has no bearing on StemEnhance. Even if, as you claim, every single pharmaceutical on the market kills the user that has NOTHING to do with whether StemEnhance works. But, just to address your concern (and, sadly, encourange you to continue with this digression), start by reading this Wikipedia article about the phases of clinical trials and what they set out to prove. How many has StemEnhance gone through? Maybe Phase 0. Phase 1 is the safety study. Note that this doesn't mean that there are no side effects. Take a chemotherapeutic drug for example. Yes, there are toxic side-effects but it's generally agreed upon that those side-effects are better than, you know, dying of cancer. If you ask Health Canada/FDA why a drug is approved, you're right - they won't say it's a payoff. They'll say because the benefits to the patient outweighs the harm.

The Chopra incident is, indeed, a black eye for Health Canada but again you want to paint an entire history of pharmaceuticals with one brush. By that token, AFA should never have been allowed back on the market after recalls based on microcystin levels (this has since been monitored - but what about anatoxins?). Or we can attack the entire alternative medicine field based on massive recalls of natural products by Pan Pharmaceuticals a few years ago. Of course we don't do that because every industry has it's bad apples and blemishes. Here's an article from MacLeans that discusses some problems with natural health products, their regulation and efficacy. AFA isn't specifically discussed, but the same kind of ideas can be applied.

You continue to imply that safety is a reason to take StemEnhance. Safety is not the same as efficacy, and those safety studies haven't even been done. We've ruled out microcystins, what about anatoxins - some people think that they could be responsible for the 'energizing feeling' people describe in their testamonials, as well as having a potentially addictive effect (also described in some testimonials). Oh, and it's a neurotoxin. What about BMAA, a naturally occurring neurotoxin in almost all cyanobacteria (work published in PNAS)? It has been linked (and debated) to ALS/Parkinson-dementia and hippocampal neuron death.

The safety hasn't been done. The efficacy hasn't been done. But of course, none of this matters to you because Health Canada kills people.

john said...

Tests are done for anatoxins i can send you a report on that i do not know about stemenhance i do not sell that but we test for all anotoxins on our e3live and show it all to the FDA,actually we have a toxicologist who is world reknown and deals with the most potent toxins ever,he has been doing it for over 25 years.We are considered a safe food by the department of agriculture and by the FDA,who actually do drop visits atleast 4 times a year to make sure everything is done cleanly.I can send you all tests weather microcystein,anatoxins,pesticides,herbocides,heavy metals salomenella etc.

kamel said...

"Tests are done for anatoxins i can send you a report on that "

Please do. The email address should be at the top of the page. And what about BMAA?

Of course, you continue to ignore the main point that there is no evidence any of it works anyway....

Safe does not mean effective.

john said...

MR.Anonymous if you have been reading all the blogs by now you would of seen that i do not sell stemenhance.I recommend it sometimes to my athletes iam training.I actually went to school in Nutrition one of the best in North America,and have studied Algaes,lets just say yea im kind of a chemist and know alot of really good ones,that pond scum your talking about i would not underestimate if i was you,because in the very near future when we run out oil and you can't drive your car anymore or heat your house we will be looking at these species for help,Nasa already use it and eat it while they are in space ,you would not be breathing or there would be no food left to eat if it was not for these types of plants which produce 80-90% of earths oxygen so your ass can stay alive,trees only give 5%,thats goes to show you hiw important they are and to begin your own clinical studies and do some research before you just call it pond scum which is better than anything that you have put in your body period.The nutrients in algaes are very easy to assimillate and pound for pound there is no food out there quite like it,they are all glyconutrients to make a long story short all othet food wheather plant or animal is lyponutrients your body has to switch from lypo tp glyco in order for your cells to be nourished,the algaes are already done for you,just like mushroom extracts same thing,isn't that intresting the first 2 life forms on the planet,and guess what if this world decides to clean us out with a major ending both those species will still be here,still alive just like it has over the last billion years,so mr.anonymous respect them and understand them thats why they are being looked at now by major scientist in the world on cleaning up this mess on our planet and in our bodies.

john said...

Kamel we also test for BMAA, negative we test for all those things NEGATIVE,thats old news your pulling out nobody listens to those because the guy that accused people that there were anatoxins them lost in court because he failed to prove it and all the tests showed negative,you can research that trial the person also was sorry for accusing and not actually researching.Our e3live continues to prove that none of these are found in them period,we do heavy duty quality control and meet GMP requirements,we are also certified organic by oregon tilth the toughest organic certifiers in North america.

kamel said...

2005 is old news? It's certainly no older than your Chopra news of Vioxx news. What test do you use to detect BMAA? Can you send that to the above address as well?

Again, safety is not the same as efficacy.

john said...

I do not need to prove it effectiveness,because i already know it works,and so hundreds of thousands that use it,including doctors,athletes,all walks of life,thousands and thousands of stores and naturalpaths all over the world,thats my proof thats all i need.When you finally get a hold of DR.Debbie you guys will have an intresting conversation.

john said...

I will send all the tests on monday as the office is closed,and will give you the labs and the tests done for anatoxins and BMAA.

kamel said...

Alternative therapies, such as yours, don't prove (like I said all the testimony in the world isn't proof) their effectiveness because there are two options: 1) they are proven correct and they become the realm of real medicine or 2)they are proven incorrect and fade out of existence.

You don't need to prove it because you've already decided whether it works or not and no amount of logic or reason will change your mind. (Before you try to turn that around on me, I'm more than willing to accept that it works once I'm provided evidence).

Since you like testimony and world-renowned experts so much, here's a quote for you from Dr. Steven Bratman "national expert on scientific evidence on alternative medicine and author of The Natural Pharmacist":

I once took alternative medicine on faith. For decades, I practiced it on patients and myself and my family, and assumed that pretty much all of it worked. Then I learned about double-blind studies, and it was like a tornado blowing down a house of cards. I discovered that I, like most people who love alternative medicine, had made a huge (though understandable) mistake.

I had thought it was possible to know whether a treatment worked by trying it. I had also thought I could trust tradition, anecdote, and authority. I now see otherwise. The insights of the double-blind trial have cut through my wishful thinking and idealism, and turned me into a hard-nosed skeptic. Show me the double-blind studies, and I'll pay attention. Otherwise, so far as I'm concerned, it's little more than hot air.

It doesn’t matter if the treatment has a long history of traditional use — in medicine, tradition is very often dead wrong. It doesn’t matter if doctors or patients think it works — doctors and patients are almost sure to observe benefits even if the treatment used is fake.

(That quote was lifted from this site and pretty much sums up my position, other than the fact that I had no pre-existing belief in alternative medicine).

I'll happily wait until Monday for those tests, and if you can let me know how you test for BMAA that would be great too.

john said...

Now your doing the same thing pulling up files,who is this guy,and this doesn't mean he is right either he is just assuming.I trust Tradition more than pharmacueticals and im sure a large percentage of people in this world do also,were talking food here,if a food is full of nutrients weather its an apple an orange or AFA or lettuce of course its going to make you feel better the body does need nutrients does'nt,most of our soils are depleted and all our trace minerals are gone no wonder we are all sick,you can trace every disease to a trace mineral defeciency,last time i checked AFA had 72 0f the 92 known organic trace minerals known to scientist almost in perfect form.The amino acid structure of AFA is identical to the human body requirements of amino acids and the fatty acids are almost identical to the fat needed by the human brain and these are all proven i will send that next week also.

kamel said...

"Now your doing the same thing pulling up files"

Oh John, how original. My point wasn't that he's an expert that you should listen to (that part was a little jab at you) I was trying to find a different way to express my position and thought he summed it up quite well. I was hoping that maybe somebody else's phrasing would maybe get the point across better. I guess I was wrong.

Again you're completely missing the point. If e3live or any other AFA product simply marketed itself as food we wouldn't be having this discussion. It doesn't. Your product, e3live, makes no fewer than a dozen specific health claims ranging from delay of premature aging to maintaining healthy cholesterol levels to purifying the blood. It claims a specific biological effect. It provides no evidence to back up these claims.

Come to think of it, isn't one of the claims of e3live enhanced brain function? It can't possibly be improved memory since we've had this EXACT SAME DISCUSSION already in this comment and this one. Unfortunately, heightened creativity is also one of the claims, but you seem to be immune to that effect with your repetitive arguments.

"you can trace every disease to a trace mineral defeciency"

Another example of your wild claims with no support, much like your not a single drug works or 50 000 Vioxx deaths. EVERY disease? Really? I'm not even going to touch it.

john said...

This is threatening our whole nation,this is what our drug companies are up to,even in canada.Shawn bucley the lawyer also knows governments are trying to sneak this under the radar without informing the public.Your freedom down the drain,not even aloud to grow your own food.Basically dr.brian clement says millions will die,do i smell population control again,or $$$$$$$$$$$$

kamel said...

I checked out your link. If you filter out the alarmist propaganda from your "news" source, what this docket is calling for is that any product that makes a medical claim be subject to the same rules that pharmaceuticals are - that is, prove that they're effective.

It is NOT about 'outlawing vegetable juice'. It's about outlawing the practice of claiming that vegetable juice will cure a specific ailment without proving it. It is NOT about outlawing massage stones, it's about outlawing the practice of claiming a therapeutic effect of massage stones without proving it. It is NOT about limiting health freedom, it's about consumer protection from scams and claims that have no scientific basis or evidence for efficacy.

Of course alternative and complementary medicine advocates are up in arms: The FDA wants them to actually back up claims instead of selling them on pseudoscience and untested claims. Does this mean "outlawing" alternative medicine? Only if it isn't proven to work. Since most of it is hogwash, of course they're scared. They'll have to back it up with science, fail, and be taken off the market. Or at least be prevented from making more than simple nutritional claims. If you haven't figured it out, I'm all for it.

Your "news" piece uses misdirection, twists facts and employs scare tactics to encourage people to oppose this legislation. (Funny how the link to the comments to oppose the docket comes well before the link to the docket itself for people to evaluate it on their own - a docket that I highly doubt you've read for yourself).

You smell population control and money? I smell BS. BS and the fear of an industry whose allowance from the public purses is about to be cut off.

Of course you'll swallow anything these people tell you as readily as you swallow their seaweed pills, nevermind whether they work or not. Me, I'm less willing to trust my health to a gaggle of crooks and quacks.

brianna said...

Dammit I KNEW that the FDA would do this eventually!! They will take away my vitamin C and my herb garden, NO MORE PARSLEY ON MY SPAGHETTI??!!! And they will no longer let me drink my raspberry herbal tea?!! I also heard from a world famous expert on undercover studies, that the FDA is working on a huge machine that will block the sun so that once they've taken away our vitamin D supplements, we won't be able to get any from the sun!! I'm going to stalk up on fortified milk powder, and I SUGGEST THAT YOU DO THE SAME!!!

john said...

But your still relying on the medical system and science for your health,i would like to know just how healthy you really are,just because you got your doctor telling you your healthy and like the other millions who did that and ended up dead or sick i will take my options and besides you do what feels right to you and unfortunately most people are doing the healthy things because they simply work and thats it and are realizing that this science stuff which is supported by the trillions of dollars from big pharma is a bunch of crap,buddy while evryone is finally waken up and your still sleeping relying on science to help you you'll just be another number waiting in the hospital room for your drugs and yet another victim and instead of spending trillions of dollars on science trying to prove that drugs work and evetyone including yourself in some way knows deep dpwn inside that it doesn't why don't they spend the money on natural products and see how well they really work but there intrest is in the drugs because thats where all the money is,get people sick with white sugar,chemical foods,alcohol and tobbacco why aren't these band because big players have invested big money in these,you see simply there s no money involved in these natural products and no patents on these plants,so there job is simple make people sick take my drugs.You simply can't hide this anymore

kamel said...

Don't presume to tell me what I, or anybody else, 'knows deep down'. I'll tell you what I know deep down: You guys are making a killing off of unproven claims, and that isn't right. I know deep down that people and websites you quote use scare tactics and conspiracy theories to distract from the fact that the alternative and natural 'medicine' they push is unproven (and if it was proven, it would cease to be alternative). I know deep down that your arguments are flawed, contradictory and often make no sense.

You ask why not spend money on natural products to see how well they work. Because they're unproven. Because the world isn't your clinical trial. Because it's your job to show that they work, not mine.

You say there are no patents on these plants. Maybe not on the plants, but certainly on the products. Read the original post, there's a link to the StemEnhance patent right there.

You say that there's no money involved in these natural products, but you've told us time and again that it's a trillion dollar industry.

Get your head on straight and come back when you have something to say that isn't fictitious.

Anonymous said...

So I know that this blog is really old, but I just wanted to say thankyou to everyone, but mainly to John and Alex. I was contacted by someone today who was trying to recruit me to sell stemenhance. They gave me the link to their web site which talks about how amazing the stuff is, but then goes on to say that you can make a killing off of selling the stuff.
My first thought was that if this stuff is so amazing then why is it relying on a multi-level marketing scheme to sell it. I decided to research it a little to try to learn about it from an unbiased source. I came across this site, as well as a few others, and started reading. A long while later I was done (there are quite a few posts) and John and Alex did a great job of convincing me that I should go nowhere near this project. When asked for evidence of its effectiveness they spouted off on how modern medicine is awful, and Alex just couldn't shut up about the fact that he was "only 19" and "rich" (who cares). Anyways just wanted to say thanks, you were all very helpful

jamescarvin said...

I have been looking into this as best as a novice can. My wife suffered a stroke five years ago and is still hemipalegic at 43. I did some web searches shortly after the stroke hoping for a cure and concluded at the time that adult stem cell therapy made a lot of sense.

Being a poor family we sought out ways to make her a part of a case study, but none were available. When I found out about Stem Enhance recently I was very skeptical. She started taking the product and felt maybe it was making a difference but wants more time. She certainly spends much more money on physical and occupational therapy and results have been minimal dollar for dollar. She bought some more, which for us was a sacrifice, since we were paying the retail price.

Noticing she had purchased a third bottle this month, I decided to become a distributor, for no other reason than to save money.

This is not to say I wouldn't love to promote a truly great product. God knows we need a break. So I have been looking closely at the specs and doing some due dilligance. The increase from .06+ to .08+ C34+ doesn't sound significant. But it does amount to millions of cells.

Anyhow, more importantly, if it seems like too little, then why do you in the same critique concern yourself with whether too much might prove hazardous? Either it is making no difference, or it is making a difference. Your thinking is not consistent.

But that is not why I am commenting. I have nothing against MLM as a means of distribution. What concerns me more is the potential toxicity of the AFA. If I can't get good answers from the company on this I am going to ask for a refund on my fast start pack.

However, I have my doubts that asking for a refund will be necessary. It seems to me that if they are going through the trouble of isolating parts of the AFA, that their process more than probably does involve checking for bad algae, and more than once every two days. This is not to say that if I had been a businessman in Drapeau's shoes, I wouldn't have found another lake to pull from, given the bad press Klamath has from the Cell Tech judgment.

One thing is for sure, Drapeau is back still pushing AFA and the company has its critics. I have also looked at the comments left in red by Dr. Morris at MLMWatch. While I agree with him about concerns on toxicity, I really don't see how anyone can believe that a "balanced diet" will supply all of the nutrients the body needs, like he says. I would be willing to pay extra for supplements I know will assimilate into my body prior to elimination. Both spirulina and AFA seem to be sensible ways to arrive at that. I've paid for colloidal minerals for the same reason. I don't need test studies to prove things. Common sense works for me.

Also faith is a factor. I know you will disagree, but I believe people used to live about ten times as long as they do now prior to a great flood, which I believe wiped out most of the natural minerals and nutrients in the earth's soil. In our "normal" state we should live to be 900 like Noah or Methusalleh. In fact, we should live forever, as Adam should have. Death is unnatural. But that is another subject for another time.

The logic that drives me to believe in adult therapy over embryonic or cord cell therapies is something I should think you would agree about as a medical student. Namely, when you take stem cells from your own body you always get an exact DNA match. We've got researchers pouring billions of dollars into embryonic research and wanting the government to match their funds, so how much more promising must the adult therapy be?

I don't have a degree but it just seems pretty elementary to me. I appreciate your getting out the charts but you seem very hostile and the tone seems about the same in the quackwatch and mlmwatch stuff.

Protecting people is important so I can see why. But it seems to go deeper with some of the Stem Tech critics my eyes are blurry from right now. No doubt it's the MLM cult and dealing with people who remind us of telephone solicitors. We like to slap sales people around. They bug us.

As for me, I would pay any price to get my wife back to good health. If we wind up paying $120/month, that will be much less than any of our other alternatives right now. And nobody is saying they definitely have the answer.

kamel said...

Thanks for your comment.

Your situation, while unfortunate, is exactly the kind of scenario that companies like this prey on. People who are ill are desperate to find something that works and are willing to shell out cash for products with no evidence of efficacy. If these companies had sufficient data to back up their claims then great, but they don't.

Either it is making no difference, or it is making a difference. Your thinking is not consistent.

Actually, that's precisely my point. Based on the available data we don't know if it's really making a difference. We don't know that if it IS making a difference, whether that difference is beneficial, harmful or neutral. Yet they sell the product anyway.

(and while I criticize the language selling an increase of 0.06 to 0.08% as a 30% increase, my main concern with that figure was that no change was observed in the control group because the CD34+ population was already as high as after StemEnhance treatment)

Throughout the commentary here, much was made about potential toxicity. For me, that isn't really too much of a concern (while the FDA may not crack down on pseudo-health claims, the surely wouldn't let an obviously toxic product on the market) but I engaged in that debate (perhaps foolishly) because it was another example of claims being made without proper evidence.

I don't need test studies to prove things. Common sense works for me.

I'm not sure what you're basing your statement that proper nutrition can't be achieved by a balanced diet on, nor your basis for determining whether something is 'working' or not. (Are we talking about "feeling healthier" after consuming the supplements you mentioned?) There are a number of reasons why 'common sense' can be wrong which is why, as scientists, we test hypotheses. That said, I'm not against nutritional or vitamin supplements if you feel you can't get adequate quantities from your diet. I tried to be clear about that in the above commentary. Selling your product based on nutritional facts (provided they are, indeed factual) is fine, selling them based on untested biological claims or unproven medical effects is not.

so how much more promising must the adult therapy be?

The StemEnhance topic isn't about embryonic vs. adult stem cell therapy. It's about the fact that StemEnhance hasn't been shown to be therapy at all. If it's as good as they claim, it should be simple to demontrate it clearly and effectively to remove any doubt - something they haven't done. Until then they should either a)stop selling the product or b)stop making health claims about the product.

I appreciate your getting out the charts but you seem very hostile and the tone seems about the same in the quackwatch and mlmwatch stuff.

I've addressed questions of my hostility already among the 120 or so previous comments. I still don't believe that the original post was anything that can be described as overly hostile, and you may note that hostility began (and was much greater) among the people SELLING StemEnhance. If I become hostile it's because it's both frustrating and offensive to have to deal with snake-oil masquerading as science. MLM isn't in and of itself necessarily bad - though it's often a reasonable clue that it's a shady product. I've worked door-to-door jobs, and yes sales people get slapped around. But these people aren't being slapped around because they're being intrusive and annoying - it's because they're harmful.

jamescarvin said...

I can see that you like to get the last word. This is, after all, your blog.

I have been trying to make layman's sense out of the original paper from which you copied your graphic above of the hystogram Fig. 5. The paper, posted at addresses a lot of issues, most of which are beyond my understanding. However, it does not suggest at any point, as you have concluded in this blog, as far as I can tell, that the 20% increase in CD34 is based on that hystogram. Rather, that hystogram is just one of twelve participants, as the graphic itself explains. So it appears to be only coincidental that there is a 20-30% increase for the participant in the slide that was chosen for the paper. The intention appears to simply demonstrate that hystograms were taken and that this is an example of one of them. The fact that the placebo remains the same for this participant and increases the level from subnormal (the .06+ T0 level) to normal (if normal is the .08+ level) in this participant's case indicates to me that there was little or no attempt to manipulate data, quite the contrary to what you have concluded, and based your criticism on.

The paper does not show the raw data, as far as I can see, from which the 20-30% increase conclusion is taken. Instead, I would take it at face value, as I take everything else reported in the paper at face value, since the study was conducted by a third and independent party/lab, that there was an increase based on an averaging of the twelve participants, and like the paper says, when some participants were excluded because of lack of sleep and other predetermined exclusion factors that the results increased from 20 to 25% increase. If the raw data is missing from the paper, also could that be because the study was truly blind?

I am with you that this increase does not mean we have necessarily found the miracle pill. After all, if a mere 25% increase is expected to heal sections of a brain that have been dead for over four years, such as my wife's, then why aren't the current 100% of stem cells now in the unenhanced system already doing that? Nevertheless, in researching this product, my conclusion, admitedly as a layman, is that there is some increase and that is better than nothing, and certainly the only product available at this time indicating any enhancement of natural adult stem cell migration on the market.

It also appears to me that if it is true as you stated that there is a wild variety from 300+ to -4 in results that if the study were not truly blind that results could have more easily been manipulated such that the reported average increase could have been around 200-300%. All they would need to do is select the data they wanted, as they did with this single participant of the twelve. And if they didn't like the results of one study, they could conduct hundreds of studies until they got lucky and could report the aberrations they were looking for.

They don't appear to have done that.

Other issues you have brought up regarding the history of Christian Drapeau and the Klamath Lake and which have been brought up at MLMWatch and QuackWatch seem to be adequately responded to at

Based on what I have read so far it appears to me that the fundamental problem is that there are two general hatreds feeding into these criticisms. The first is against alternative health solutions. The second is against network marketing. With researchers spending billions of dollars these days to develop stem cell technologies and venture capital taking this field seriously, I find myself looking for developed products and solutions and not yet finding anything commercially available other than StemEnhance. I have read that there are three biotech companies coming out with something by next year. I don't know whether their products will be "natural" or not. I am not one to care. All I know is that, despite what you've said, I'm looking at what appears to be a study showing some amount of increase. At 25% it's not the big hurrah. But it doesn't look like a scam either. If I have the money to pay for it, I'm going to give it to her.

ShadowMyth said...

I do not care what scientific studies say, all I care about is the results. This stuff is miraculous, and not one person I have known to take it, is disappointed. When I take it, I have no allergies, my skin is incredibly healthy, scars heal, and even the visual damage to my blind eye was literally healed. Those who call products like this quackery, are usually part of the mainstream medical community,. Products like this, liquid zeolite, etc., really do work, and they have the potential to put traditional medicine out of business. Whoever you are, why don't you try it, rather than listening to scientific data? You are blinded by your allegiance to science that is backed by big pharma, and all they care about is the bottom Oh, and QuackWatch was proven in court to be in the pockets of the medical industry and the, money, money.

jamescarvin said...

I have been reading all the comments on this blog and I must say that the greater vitriol has been spewed out by those who hate "big pharma" - far worse than the antagonism I have seen from the author of the original blog (though starting out with the words "quack of the week" isn't exactly nice.

Anyhoo, the author just wants to see more evidence. I read on the site that that is planned.

I also noted a few posts back that as far as I could tell his interpretation of the paper is based on a misunderstanding of the hystograms so that he has incorrectly inferred that the 30% is really less than 2% and that it is based on an aberration, when in fact, the paper itself doesn't offer the raw data, just the results and some samples of graphs used.

I have made a decision. My son is doing his fourth grade science fair project and I just received a fast start pack with six bottles of StemEnhance. I would like to conduct a blind study using this product and will get my son to do the work. Unfortunately I have limited resources to conduct a truly useful experiment, but would like your advice.

I would like your opinion on what my son could do that would be a fair project that might produce some useful conclusions on a small scale. I am thinking that he could get six participants since we have six bottles.

1. We will find out from participants if they plan on changing any of their normal behaviors over the next 60 days.
2. We will get them to answer some questions about their health before the 60 day test period begins.
3. We will supply half of them with a placebo during the first 30 days and half of them with a placebo during the 31-60th day.

We will get them to answer the same questions about their health once a week for 8 weeks beginning on the fourth day.

I don't think we have any flourescent jellyfish we can look for C34 migration with, but I would like your suggestions as to what we might be able to do to produce a good experiment that might have some use, in the context of a fourth grade science project on a low budget.

Any help would be most appreciated!

Anonymous Coward said...

Hi James,

You're right, the only thing Kamel pointed out was that there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude anything about efficacy of the product based on the data presented in the paper. You are also correct in thinking that the way to test efficay is to do a double blind study on a large group of patients. You see science only cares about results, not the personal attachment to wanting a product to work, or the monetary reward of selling a product under those pretenses.

Now for your experiment. I would strongly advise against "testing" any product on humans or pets. This is best left to professionals. You never know when one could have an adverse effect, such as an allergic reaction, or toxicity. At the very least please tell me you won't give this to children.

Now to answer your question, this is how a double blind placebo study is done. First a placebo must be chosen, it must be indistinguishable from the real thing in terms or colour, size shape, taste and smell. Even the experimenter shouldn't be able to tell the difference (hence double blind). Now a third party needs to "blind" the samples by using a code so that you can track back what you gave to whom at the end of the study. Now to be able to say anything you need to be able to have a large enough sample size. In most instances efficacy is tested on thousands of people. The smaller the sample size, the harder it is to statistically show any difference. You will always have people who report feeling better despite being on the placebo so you need to do proper statistics (probably a chi square test in this case). Even then it's possible to have a type I error (false positive), where you see a difference, but in reality it's just the people you happened to pick and distribute in each group which biased the result.

Now it's up to the company to test their own product and show that it works. It's plain and simple. until they do that, they do not, and cannot possibly know that their product works, and so are selling it under false pretense.

kamel said...

I read the paper before making my original post, as well as discussing it with some of my colleagues at the research institute where I work. My assessment was based on more than just that one figure, I just used it to illustrate the quality of the data presented. As you note and Anonymous Coward points out, all I've been arguing is that there isn't sufficient evidence of efficacy. Somewhere along the way 'no evidence of efficacy' has been twisted to 'evidence of no efficacy', which is not my position at all. In my opinion, the data they've provided to support their point is unconvincing. My opinion, as I've stated throughout the comments (and which AC echoes in his above comment) is that if a medical claim is to be made about a product, the claim should be tested and supported by evidence *before* it goes to the public. As I've pointed out, even if we accept the data that I was critical of (I'll get to that in a moment) as true that still says nothing about whether said stem cell mobilization has a positive health effect. Again, that's something that needs to be tested before it goes to market with such claims.

Regarding that particular histogram, I am fully aware that it is only one of 12 participants and that it is meant to be representative of all 12 (some will be lower, some higher but this is 'typical'). I don't think I implied anywhere that this data was manipulated (otherwise, as you say, they would have obviously picked a histogram showing a more dramatic effect). One of my issues with that figure was the control treatment beginning as high as post-StemEnhance treatment. That is still a problem for me. If we're talking about increasing the population of circulating stem cells from 'subnormal' to 'normal' as you suggest, wouldn't the proper control be to see if a placebo fails to raise the population in the same way? As it stands, in that figure the data is meaningless because the control is poor.

As for the "30%", a scientific publication - to its readership - is primarily about what they show, not what they claim they've observed but didn't feel was important enough to include (but yes, in the literature there are some examples of 'data not shown', but it typically isn't data central to the main argument). That being the case, I take their 0.062% to 0.085% to be demonstrating what they claim is a 30% increase (the graphic actually shows a 37% increase). Yes, the have 11 other samples, but this is meant to be an example of a 'typical' result. If they were to show the 300% increase we would see it go from 0.062% to around 0.24%. You say you have a son in 4th grade. If he took a test and got 50% on it, but it was discovered there was a marking error and it was revised upward to 75% would you say that was an increase of 25% or 50%? The average person would probably say 25% - that's literally the difference between the new mark and the original mark. StemEnhance has chosen to say 50%. While it's correct - an increase of 25% represents a mark that's 50% higher than the original mark (25/50 = 0.5 or 50%) - one might argue that it's not the normal way someone might interpret that change and that it's an attempt to make changes seem larger than they are. The problem gets worse when dealing with small numbers. In the case of that figure an increase in circulating CD34+ cells of 0.02% (0.08-0.06) turns out to be a 30% increase (0.02/0.06 = 0.3 or 30%). Now, even if we both agree to say 30% and that the change is real (though we can't really know because of the poor control) - that STILL doesn't say anything about it *working* (in the context of improved healing, slowing age-related degeneration, etc.)

You say "the study was conducted by a third and independent party/lab". One only needs to look at the authors of the paper to see that two of the authors (lead author Gitte Jensen and Christian Drapeau) are the holders of the patent for StemEnhance. Further down in the declarations of conflict of interest you can read: "The coauthor C. Drapeau is Chief Science Officer for StemTech Health Sciences, which distributes the product StemEnhance, used for the in vivo part of this paper." Independent third party indeed.

You also point to the StemEnhance FAQ as having "adequately responded" to concerns. I'll say again that I'm not really concerned about microcystins or other contamination of the product. I still don't think it 'adequately responds' to what may be genuine concerns. Yes, it answers questions but for a skeptic it doesn't offer any references. For example, they say "Stem cells released from the bone marrow that do not reach a tissue simply home back to the bone marrow after some time." Is that true? I don't know. A simple reference to a paper that shows that would be nice. Worse still, there are some blatant falsehoods in that FAQ. Question 9 states that "only embryonic stem cells have been associated with the development of aberrant growth" and that "stem cells released from the bone have not been associated with such problems". If you've read through my comments above you'll find reference to a paper that shows that stem cells released from bone promote breast cancer metastasis. I think this qualifies as 'aberrant growth'. There may not be a lot of evidence (I haven't combed the literature). There may not even be strong evidence but to say that there is NO evidence that adult stem cells (including those released from bone) are associated with aberrant growth is simply untrue. This kind of thing certainly doesn't help their cause.

Finally you suggest that my criticism is based (in part) on a hatred of alternative health solutions. If by 'alternative health solutions' you mean 'people who make untested claims about products they sell to the public' then I'm guilty as charged. A more accurate description of my position is that I'm FOR evidence-based medicine (whether 'natural product' or not). I've tried to explain in my comments leading up to this one that there is no such thing as 'alternative health solutions'. It's only a solution if it's known to work. Alternative solutions fail to test the products advertised in a rigorous, scientific fashion (relying instead on testamonial). Should they test and be shown to work, they cease to be 'alternative' solutions and become the realm of evidence based medicine. Should StemEnhance step up and do those tests in a convincing manner, I'll sing their praises with the rest of you. Until then, I'll remain skeptical and until then, as AC noted above, their product is being sold under false pretenses.

jamescarvin said...

Thanks for the replies, AC and Kamel.

As a food product that hasn't proven unsafe to anyone I have nothing against feeding Stem Enhance to my family or friends who might be willing to participate in a simple experiment for a fourth grade science fair project. I am willing to take chances. I would feed them OTC mushrooms from the produce section, knowing there is some MSG in it too, whether or not people were debating umami.

In the case of Stem Enhance, toxins are apparently filtered out of this equation, so the question, to me seems to be one over whether there is any apparent health improvement effect. Drapeau's paper, as Kamel points out, does not talk about health benefits. It only points to some amount of cell migration. I don't think the paper pretends to talk about health benefits - it only indicates migration, and in the blandest of ways. zzzzzz. I know you say you read this paper. More power to you. But you do seem to make the false assumption regarding percentages. If the paper were a sales piece I could see selecting a hystogram that proved a point, but it obviously is not. And as to third parties, the fact that one or two of the authors has a financial interest does not mean that an independent lab would not have had control of the data.

That said, your notion that the increase is something other than 30% is moot. It is not based on the difference between .06 and .08. It is based on data not published in the paper, as unconvincing as that may be. Again, it is not a sales piece.

The issue of adult cells causing an increase in matastasis, which you bring up, is an interesting one. Again, I can only read this as a layman, but the link seems to show that there is a possible increase, not that there either definitely is, or that increased CD34+ might be a cause of breast cancer - just a stimulant of existing cancer in some cases.

From the day that I first heard about stem cell theory and considered its possible implications I have raised a legitimate concern about the possibility that stem cells could enhance the rate of aggression in cancer cells, of any type. It makes sense that this should be so since they adapt so well to other types of cells, and that is essentically where cancer starts - from the malformation of DNA strands that are accepted by the body for cell duplication.

If you water and fertilize a garden and you've got bad seeds in it along with the good, you stimulate growth of both good and bad seeds. On the other hand, you don't do away with the process of watering or fertilizing just because in some cases it stimulates the growth of bad seeds. What you do is make sure there are no such seeds there before you begin your watering and fertilizing.

In a person who already has cancer, the stem cells could be called on to ehance that growth. However, in a person who does not have cancer, there would be no reason that such growth would be stimulated. Rather, the cells would be used in other parts of the body as needed.

I will not stop drinking water just because I can drown myself in it. I will not stop breathing air just because some of it contains toxic pollutants. I will not stop socializing just because some bad people will hurt me or teach me their own bad habits. People are like stem cells that way. They adapt and spread malevolence. Fortunately I can choose the people I hang out with. And if I can't, at least I can make a determination not to become like them.

I don't live in fear. I won't worry about the extremely slim chance that my sons will eat something that will create cancer in them. I don't think that is what your link indicates would happen. And I wouldn't let it stop the process of honest inquiry.

I am much more concerned about the amount of sugar they consume than most anything else. But I don't require that experiments be done to prove that sugar never causes any type of disease. We already know that it is related to diabetes and other problems. We just don't live in fear about it. And we preach moderation.

With all that said, it seems to me very ridiculous of you to warn against use of Stem Enhance and adult stem cell therapy generally on the basis that it causes tumors or that it may cause them. Now in the case of cloning, and embryonic cells, I hear that it took over 250 tries to get one healthy Dolly. And she only lived half of a normal lamb lifespan. That is what we might get with embryonic stem cells, because if you think about it, we are taking DNA out of one cell and implanting it into a "nourishing environment" to create a new kind of cell, rather than allowing cells to do what they are designed to do - duplicate themselves and eventually form into a mature being according to the pattern that is written in their code.

So when you start implanting those cells into someone else's body - such as embryonic stem cells into Michael J. Fox's brain, hoping you will heal his Parkinson's Disease, you are actually injecting a foreign body with separate DNA from his own. So if you have any success with it, I'll be shocked, as will many others, if it doesn't cause a tumor.

But that is not what we are talking about here. If you simply enhance what the body is already doing, not implanting any foreign DNA, then in theory both aberrant cells, like cancer cells, and other cells which could use the extra building blocks, will serve their purposes faster and more effectively. So to be prudent you simply avoid administering an adult stem cell enhancing agent to a person who is known to have aberrant cells, such as cancer.

Freed from our fears, we then go to the experiments to see whether this theory pans out. We have to start somewhere. Your complaint is that the company is selling its product with the presumed benefits based on unproven theory, captializing on a market that is poised and ready, not waiting for proof. That makes them the bad guys. I don't have any complaint about the scientific process in sticking to what can be known rather than stepping out in faith based on various assumptions, most especially if you are a scientist. Proven theory is better than unproven theory. But I can also operate on unproven theory and be very comfortable with it. I take all sorts of things based on unproven theories. Every vitamin I take, whether natural or synthetic, I take and spend my hard earned money for, never having seen one scientific study that shows me it can increase my strength or reduce my liklihood of catching a cold. This is what laymen do. As a scientist I can understand why you would be looking for empirical proof. That's another story.

I dont' know whether empirical proof exists for various vitamins to this day. Yet there are huge industries selling them as food and under the assumption of various health benefits. Given the choice between HagenDaz and carrots, I'll bet the carrots will be better for me and pay the cost of forfeiting something that tastes much better in favor of assumed, yet unproven, good health benefits.

I've even eaten liver on that basis. Yech.

And I would feed it to my children, if I could get them to eat it, even if I've heard that liver can cause cancer. It's a wonderful world.

So back to the question of a fourth grader's science fair project, here is what we're thinking... We'll give the subjects a health sheet that asks how their health is on a scale of 1-100 in various areas. We will also ask what their daily habits are and see if they plan to change any of them - what supplements currently taking, what schedule is like, whether they drink or smoke and how much and whether they take any regular medications. We'll monitor to see whether all that stays the same for a 60 day test period, and if it does then the subjects won't be disqualified.

I can't exactly afford more than the six bottles of this stuff I already paid for, so I can't get a huge sample unless you want to make a donation for the cause of science and scientists in training.

We'll ask the subjects to complete a daily questionaire at the time of the dosage and then one hour after the dosage. Either during the first thirty days or during the second thirty days we will provide a placebo.

In order to conduct the experiment blind we will empty the caplets and place them into caplets that look the same, separating the placebos into bottles and the non-placebos into bottles. We will then ask a neighbor to mix up the bottles, marking them with a number so that we can later identify them after completing the experiment.

We'll write down the data and then when the experiment period is complete we will have the neighbor tell us which bottle numbers contained the placebos and which contained the Stem Enhance.

We will then take the data and put it onto charts for all to see, whether we like the results or not. This experiment, unlike Drapeau's will focus on health benefits.

I'm no scientist, and neither is my son, but this seems to be a fair experiment to me. If any distributors, who are much better off than I personally am, would like to make a cash donation so that we can afford to increase the number of test subjects, I know that would improve the usefulness of this experiment and your donations would be most appreciated. If you do so I will be glad to give you a plug on my web site in exchange. Write to james@ and I'll show you how to send money.

john said...

Hey guys back from holiday nice to see the chats are still going,just found out from my friend in australia that the international stem cell research conference was held recently,some of the top scientist in the world on this subject were there and invited christian drapeaus and his colleagues to the event,found out that they actually were very opened and very appreciative of stemenhances work.Things are moving foward as we are getting ready for a pharmaceutical big brother meltdown,everthing is moving along as planned universally.I will check in here and there.

kamel said...

As you point out, the paper doesn't discuss health benefits yet this paper is what the StemEnhance website bases it's health claims on. They take this data (any yes, I'm still unconvinced) and a couple of rodent studies (that DON'T involve StemEnhance) to extrapolate to improved healthiness in humans. The paper IS a sales piece. All papers are, at least insofar as the goal of a paper is to convince the reader of the scientific story they're telling.

So, since I'm wrong in my interpretation of that figure what is the figure trying to show? Why is it included if it has nothing to do with CD34+ increase? Why does the placebo value *before* treatment begin as high as the *after* StemEnhance treatment? I'll repeat myself: this is an example of the type of data they're basing the 30% on. As the paper says, they saw a range between -4% and 300% difference. This one shows over 30%. No, it is not the sole basis for arriving at that number, it is one of the 12 and contributes to the *average* of 30%. It is an example of the quality of data they are using. You say that the data used to arrive at a 30% number isn't included in the paper. Well, it seems to me to be a publication of the poorest quality if they don't show the data used to reach their main conclusions. Either way, I await your interpretation.

As for the Nature paper I mentioned regarding breast cancer - I'm not saying that the CD34+ cells released by StemEnhance (if we believe the data) will cause breast cancer, though the paper does suggest that you may want to avoid it if you do have cancer. The point I was trying to make was about neither safety nor fear, though I still feel that safety concerns haven't been properly addressed. My point was about honesty. StemEnhance claims that adult stem cells have not been associated with aberrant growth. The literature says otherwise. Take what you will from that.

I wouldn't let it stop the process of honest inquiry.

If nothing else, I would have hoped you understood that I was calling for honest inquiry. Inquiry into the safety and effectiveness of this product before it goes to market, like any product making health claims should. Even if this product turns out to be miraculous in its workings, they shouldn't be making premature claims without evidence as the basis for selling it.

But I don't require that experiments be done to prove that sugar never causes any type of disease. We already know that it is related to diabetes and other problems.

But how do you know this? It's because studies HAVE been done. Somebody didn't just wake up one day and say 'sugar consumption is linked to diabetes', a hypothesis was formed and tested. That you don't require experiments is immaterial - studies have been done and that's how you know what you know on the subject. It's the same with all the vitamins you take. We all take some things on authority. The point is that you shouldn't HAVE to. Data exists for the nutritional value of a carrot. Data exists for the function of vitamins in the body. Data doesn't exist for the health benefits of StemEnhance. (and again, I'll make a distinction between a nutritional claim and a claim like 'improves memory' or 'accelerates healing')

Regarding your experiment, I'll echo what AC said in his comment. That said, it seems like a fairly sophisticated approach for a 4th grade science project. Things you'll need to consider are placebo effect (which it seems that you have) as well as the fact that people who take a supplement at a 'low' point will feel better regardless of if it works simply due to random fluctuaions. Actual measures of healthiness are probably better than self-reporting, but for your purposes it should be fine. I don't remember what your sample size is, but it needs to be large enough for data to be statistically meaningful. As AC said, this kind of study, to obtain meaningful results, is best left to the pros. Your friends and neighbours may not appreciate being given a random pill to sample.

Dick Head said...

I haven't read all of the catfight here, but so far I can tell that Kramer boy needs his ass kicked because he disrespects people's testimonials. The fact that this blog is called "Quack of the week" is enough to ignore it to begin with.

I don't think these guys are students... the way they "slip in" spirulina sound very familiar... I think Kramel is the same guy who for years has been trying to defame the AFA industry.

So people, I would not fuel these types of blogs... this guy is a suppressive bastard.

kamel said...

Dear Richard,
Thanks for continuing to fuel this discussion. Your comment was the 130th, and there's no sign of slowing. If only all of them were as well argued and rational as yours. Your threat of an ass-kicking has certainly convinced me of the value of testimonial as scientific evidence and your argument that I've spent years trying to defame the AFA industry is so well-supported I don't see how anybody could argue with it.

Since you admittedly have not read all of the comments, you probably missed the various points where I explain WHY testimonial evidence doesn't replace proper scientific study. Don't worry, I plan on devoting a series of posts to that very subject so stay tuned. Until then, rest assured that I am a student (the name is 'Kamel' not 'Kramer' or 'Kramel').

As a final question I have to ask, which is more suppressive: ignoring a post based on the title, or allowing and engaging dissenting opinion? (Hint: if I was really a suppressive bastard I would close the comments and delete those that I didn't agree with).

Again, thank you for your readership Mr. Head.

Croft Kylo said...

well After spending two hrs reading all the posts i have this to say. My duck loves stem enhance,and is doing well.As well as all my family. My wife is no longer confined to her wheelchair and facing life threating pancreatic and kidney falure. She doing well as am i and looking forward to a long and happy life getting healthier using stem enhance. I am not going to bore you with all the details about test and test results you are way to smart for that. you have all the answers and are very old and wise. you sound like you are a doctor and have studied for 50 and better years. there is nothing i can say. you have done all your researce and are well informed with your years of study. Somewere along the way I have to ask myself do i know what Iam talking about? Am I 100% informed have I tryed all possible test to prove that all the claims are wrong If i can hosnestly say I have than I can make claims as you have done. you have not done your home work and you are not to well informed and you have not tryed the product yourself in a contorled study. Now Mr. Camel or should I call you Mr. Quack Quack as you have done to Mr. Drapeau. Have you done the test with people, pets or horses to disprove all of Mr drapeau studies. Or have you quacked and quacked? Myself I have done my studing of the product "Stem Enhance" and have posted my claims at my site I do not get down in the mud and be unprofessional by resorting to claims of quackier by other professionals who are way more qualifed than I. So to end my little comment of my study and claims I say to you my friend have you lead people to find the anwers for them selve or have you been trying to shove your opion on them.
I would like to thank you for letting me post to your blog site. my duck also thanks you "quack you"
Creator bless you and have a good day

Mr. Croft Kylo

kamel said...

Mr. Kylo,
I checked out your site and as far as I can tell it's the same advertising and research that is found on every other StemEnhance seller site that has already been discussed here with no information at all about your personal study and claims.

If you had read all the comments as you claim, you would know that the onus is not on me to substantiate claims, but on the makers and marketers of the product. So far it hasn't been done thoroughly or satisfactorily.

I'm glad to hear your wife is doing better, but let me ask you: was she taking other medication or treatment, or relying solely on StemEnhance? As I've written before, there are many reasons why a product may seem to work when it doesn't.

Anonymous said...

This would be a lot easier to take seriously without all the sneering your author does. It's easy to be a holy man on a mountain top, and it's even easier to be critical hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. I'll have more faith in your opinion when you stop hiding behind Bayman, The Doc and Kamel. At least Anonymous Coward had the integrity to advertise himself honestly.

K.C. Locke

Anonymous said...

It's easy to be a holy man on a mountain top, and it's even easier to be critical hiding behind the anonymity of the internet.

Not just easy, fun too!

Croft Kylo said...

We are going in circles here. If you would of read my comment carfully and looked at the website carefully you would of found my own personal test i have done. as for my wife the answere is no she was not using any other medication to help her kidneys repair themselves she was only using stemenhance. she had kidney failure well below 50% after using stem enhance for 3 month and no other medication to help her kidneys repair themslves her test results for her kideys was over 78% There is no medication on the market thaat will rebuild failed kidneys that i now of and once your have kidney failure it does not get better. unless you have some maicle drug as for myself i have had the sme kind of results with my liver. and lungs My liver has repaired it selfand my sollen liver has gone done in size as wel as th biopsy has show that mauch of the virus is gone and my of the scarce tissue has been repaired i use nothing except stem enhance. this are my results and the test were done by doctors and lab personal. what more do you want. you have done nothing no test nothing no results nothing except shooting you mouth of about somone being a quack. YOU MR CAMEL ARE THE QUACK HERE NOT CHRISTANE DRAPEAU. I have read every thing in your posts and i do not mke false claims when i say i read it I have read the posts. when i say i have done my test to support my claims i have done them you have done nothing. You have made huge claims without studing and doing your research fully. no where do i see and test results from your own data it is not up to mr Drapeau to prove what you do agree with it is up to you do prove factually that he is wrong. i am i research person that make resource materials for schools i create materials to be used in educational instuitions for the perpose of educating people. WHERE IS YOU DATA. how can i make it more clear to you. You mush have personal data to back up your claims. mr prapeau has already given his just because you do not agree means NOTHING. you say you are a student. i question this. If you are a student you would of been taught to make sure you always have your own researh to back up any staments you make and i see NOTHING just a lot of quackier on your part. you can see my claims here on your post or at my site at ialso do not have a problem giving you my name for all the world to see. I do not have to hind behind a comuter screen my claims are in support of mr Drapeau how also uses his full name. You do not. what is the prepouse of the site you have created here. is it to discuss things in a professional way or is it to create a lot of disucussion and arguements on this thread in order to drive the search engines to this site to make it more popular in order to sell your site Hmmmmm. I wonder? i wilL continue to post to your site as long as you respone to my comments and continue to post my url so people can see my claims on my site. You have made a statement that it has not been done to your standards SO WHAT WHO CARES. your not intersted in using stem enhance. your only intersted in make bad comments a bout other people. all you have done is sqauck WHERE ARE YOUR RESULTS. I am not trying to be rude. As in my first post i said where are you results of you tests. you still have shown NOTHING. YOU STILL HAVE NOT POSTED ANY RESULTS OF ANY TESTS YOU HAVE DONE. you have even claimed you have done no tests. You have NOTHING to back up you statments. NOTHING. That is as clear as i can put it to you with out being rude. Or take back your comment the mr darpeau is the quack of the month and wear it yourself. Once again my duck loves stemenhance as will as my dog, my horses, my kittyies and my grand children and my wife and I.
I thank for your time to read this and to post it for your readers.

Creator bless you and i wish you a good day

Croft Kylo

kamel said...

Mr. Kylo,
Yes, we are going in circles. Maybe it's a failure on my part, and I'm not being clear. Your personal, unsupported experience does not constitute a scientific study. At best it is an obeservation that could lead to proper hypothesis formation which would then be tested and supported (or not supported) by evidence. I have read your comment carefully and checked your website as best I can and all I can find is *your word* that StemEnhance healed your liver and healed your wife's kidneys. No mention of controls, how you measured repair, etc. Perhaps you can point me directly to the place on your website where I can find it, but my searching there turned up nothing (even a google search of your site didn't find the word 'kidney' anywhere).

You seem stuck on the idea that it is my job to do tests to prove StemEnhance doesn't work. If you had read my post and the comments as carefully as you claim you would know that's not how it works (or at least you would know what my answer to that will be). It is not my job to prove anything. It is the job of the person making a positive claim. The default position is that StemEnhance does no more than placebo until proven otherwise. *At best* Mr. Drapeau has shown that StemEnhance produces a transient increase in circulating CD34+ cells. I have already explained why I think that data is flawed. IF we take that best case scenario, that still says absolutely nothing about where those cells go, what they do, how they do it or whether it helps. I don't know how much clearer I can make that for YOU.

You imply that I'm creating controversy to drive search engine rankings and sell the site. We make no money from this site. You, on the other hand, have a clear financial interest in StemEnhance. You are welcome to keep posting here and including the URL to your sales pitch and I will continue to respond but I ask, for my sake and that of our readers, that you pay more attention to formatting and spelling as your comments are difficult to read. I can only hope your educational resource materials are of higher quality.

Oh, and it's Kamel, with a "K". How carefully did you say you've been reading?

CDLeeth said...

What strikes me is the apparent illiteracy of the Stem Enhance advocates. It is indicative of the lack of education and research surrounding the "debate."

We are being asked to accept this product's miracle properties based on faith, much as we would be asked to choose a new religion. That is not how science works.

How convenient that the wife of a Stem Enhance merchant was miraculously cured by algae. Where's the documentation to support this claim? Or am I just supposed to accept this as evidence and start my own expensive regimen of capsules?

I have a personal reason for my skepticism concerning this "miracle." I have a friend who has been diagnosed with a particularly aggressive form of cancer, and he has decided not to follow traditional medical treatment, going so far as to cancel his surgery. He is now on a restrictive diet and is taking several "miracle cures" that are only available through MLM scams.

Personally, I think he's going to regret this very soon. He says the same things about big pharma and the FDA that the MLM quacks preach - that's there's a big conspiracy and fraud at the core of their practices.

I don't doubt that these corporations and government institutions are very bad at times. But if these miracle cures had any efficacy they would be exploiting it themselves. Hell, if the conspiracy was true, the right strings could be pulled to put these substances under the rule of the FDA and they could all be driven out of business so that the drug companies could reap the profits in their own way.

The truth is, these substances are nothing. The people here who are advocating them are either ignorantly deluded, or they are criminals. In the end, it's really all about money for them, just like the drug companies.

It, and they, disgust me.

Anonymous said...

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics...

Trapped in Babylon said...

wow, that croft guy's site really killed the whole discussion on his side of things. the guy's wife is cured but instead of this story flushed out with photos of his wife all i see is a movie made up of badly cut up stock photos and stock graphs along with a blinking message stating how he's making money from home. it seems the making money from home has taken hierarchy over anything else and whether there is any truth to the product it was totally shot down by this blatant materialistic aspect. sad. i'm amazed that people don't see through the stock image thing right away. and this 19 year old bragging that his 'homeboy' drapeau made him rich, wow, i bet he listens to fake rappers and avoids the conscious lyricists too.

Anonymous said...

Wow. I don't know where to begin... I've read through approximately 75% of the comments on this AFA/StemEnhance Blog post - yes, it took quite a while. Because of a personal neurological condition, and from my own extensive studies for anything that might speed my recovery or just alleviate the discomfort that I feel on an ongoing basis, I stumbled upon StemEnhance with my usual high hopes. During this investigation I've probably read through a good 50-100 different commentaries on AFA, StemEnhance, e3live and other related products on various websites and blog postings. The results are inconclusive. But one conclusion I have made: Kamel is the man and, in terms of intellectual argumentation, he blows the proponents of StemEnhance, including John, Alex, and the rest out of the water! His comments, along with Anonymous, are far more rational than those of his opponents. I find 19 yr. old Alex's challenges hilariously pathetic given how badly he's getting beaten-up on this post. But he's the type of guy who might finally get Kamel on the phone (hypothetically speaking), get his ass thoroughly stomped from the standpoint of a reasonable, knowledgeable observer and still talk as though he's the man sticking-it to his opponent! Maybe someday, in 10 years or so, Alex will wake-up and realize his intellectual and, from my viewpoint, spiritual and philosophical short-comings and embrace the type of pursuits that will actually improve him and/or the condition of other's in some way(s). Anyway, from what I've read about AFA/StemEnhance this is what my current extent of deduction: This source of algae has a fairly strong nutritional composition if consumed in high enough doses. There is some tentative evidence of its ability to circulate additional adult stem cells in the human system, though the health benefits derived from such are highly disparate on a testimonial basis; results are anecdotally conclusive only, with much more scientific processing necessary and strong probabilities of the placebo effect influencing results. Also, there is evidence from scientific trial that suggests "stem cell enhancers" may leave the subject vulnerable to aberrant, malignant growths. That said, this form of supplementation does show some promise in accelerated healing of injured biological systems, and yet it remains to be seen whether the consumption of StemEnhance and similar products is worth the risk or the cost, even for someone in a fairly desperate situation such as myself. By the way, if anyone knows of anything that might help me in my quest to heal a fairly abnormal neurological malady, believe me when I say I AM ALL EARS.

Nathan said...

My twin brother has Parkinson's dis-ease and the world waits, as people like the Pope and George Bush hold up the technology in stem cell research over there limited perceptions of the God concept, which has people suffering needlessly, while lining their pockets and the multi national drug company's that produce the highly toxic drugs in managing these various conditions.
Embryonic Stem cell research and implementation could put to sleep mans diseases in its entirety.
It makes my blood boil in seeing the needless struggle my twin brother and people like him have to go through day after day, while those in high places sit on there fat incomes and perceived power thrones and absolutely screwed up ideology in holding up the cure for these dis=ease's
My brother and I have been using the health products from for ten years in managing my brothers and my own well Being and to date have found no other company that comes close to there compassion, product expertise and honesty. They make no claims, just simple well put together natural products through cold processing for maximum benefit in managing peoples wellness.
It makes my blood boil when the only science in healing my brother's condition is Embryonic stem cell science, then to see individuals exploit the use of the word 'stem cell' in wellness products and use it to line there own pockets without healing debilitating disease is dishonest.
I would like Stem Tech to prove me wrong and show me evidence where the product or products you promote has cured Parkinson's or any other debilitating dis=ease?
I have read so many claims from dis honest professionals in saying they have found the source of life. When in actual fact they have discovered nothing. They have simply put an emotional tag and a great sounding name on what is found in nature , which is nothing more than what most other company's of similar ilk have been promoting and selling for years, but for the tweaking, for patent purposes, of another ingredient or two, or some such similar pattern.
With 20 years of exploring wellness products and MLM and referral company's and there products, only one company does not appear in the scam basket over the internet, and stands out head and shoulders above the rest in product quality, authenticity, honesty, integrity, compassion and simplicity and that company is and those, who like me, just use the products for wellness management great. They also have a compensation plan second to none for those who wish to venture there.
Warm in Spirit

john said...

anonymous he blows everybody out of the water is your conclusion,i continue to work with NHL hockey players and top Doctors and NBA conditioning coaches and top IBF world boxing champion and lots of patients and get amazing results,hundreds of thousands of people take AFA with amazing results so if you decide not to take it thats oK but don;t go bashing AFA,im not here to make claims because personally i don't use stemenhance but use e3 live and work with it all over the world,its an amazing food with lots of nutrition and high vibration,any wild food found in nature will help correct conditions because they will simply survive without man.Algaes are now being studied by lots of scientists and universities for nutrition for the future,NASA has been using spirulina a cousin of AFA for easy food nutrition for space programs,this food isn't new but has been around before we were even on this planet,there are clinical studies getting under way in australia from a team of neurological doctors who have used AFA with great success so will see the results very soon.I hope that you are able to find something to help your condition because at the end of the day we want to see health in everyone on this planet but before you go bashing AFA you should give it a try.thanks

john said...

anonymous he blows everybody out of the water is your conclusion,i continue to work with NHL hockey players and top Doctors and NBA conditioning coaches and top IBF world boxing champion and lots of patients and get amazing results,hundreds of thousands of people take AFA with amazing results so if you decide not to take it thats oK but don;t go bashing AFA,im not here to make claims because personally i don't use stemenhance but use e3 live and work with it all over the world,its an amazing food with lots of nutrition and high vibration,any wild food found in nature will help correct conditions because they will simply survive without man.Algaes are now being studied by lots of scientists and universities for nutrition for the future,NASA has been using spirulina a cousin of AFA for easy food nutrition for space programs,this food isn't new but has been around before we were even on this planet,there are clinical studies getting under way in australia from a team of neurological doctors who have used AFA with great success so will see the results very soon.I hope that you are able to find something to help your condition because at the end of the day we want to see health in everyone on this planet but before you go bashing AFA you should give it a try.thanks

john said...

anonymous he blows everybody out of the water is your conclusion,i continue to work with NHL hockey players and top Doctors and NBA conditioning coaches and top IBF world boxing champion and lots of patients and get amazing results,hundreds of thousands of people take AFA with amazing results so if you decide not to take it thats oK but don;t go bashing AFA,im not here to make claims because personally i don't use stemenhance but use e3 live and work with it all over the world,its an amazing food with lots of nutrition and high vibration,any wild food found in nature will help correct conditions because they will simply survive without man.Algaes are now being studied by lots of scientists and universities for nutrition for the future,NASA has been using spirulina a cousin of AFA for easy food nutrition for space programs,this food isn't new but has been around before we were even on this planet,there are clinical studies getting under way in australia from a team of neurological doctors who have used AFA with great success so will see the results very soon.I hope that you are able to find something to help your condition because at the end of the day we want to see health in everyone on this planet but before you go bashing AFA you should give it a try.thanks

Anonymous said...

john, that afa works is your conclusion. You still haven't provided a single clinical study to back up your claims. you can't say 'hockey players say it's good' is valid evidence but deny 'anonymous says kamel blows everyone out of the water' isn't.

saying you sell e3live and not stemenhance is a cop-out. they both make similar claims, the difference is that stemenhance at least has a bit of bad science to back it up.

you say there are studies being done. come back when their finished then we can talk. Until then stick to food claims. nobody has a problem with them, its the health claims that are the issue. And wtf does high vibration mean?

your arguments are weak (wild food will correct conditions because they survive without man? pretty much anything will survive without man. algae, poison mushrooms, name it) kamel doesn't need to blow you out of the water, anybody can do it.

john said...

In canada where i live the e3 live only makes food claims,a frozen food product.I Talk to thousands of amazing nutritionalist and doctors who have tons of more credentials then kamel,Dr.Debbie who is a amazing scientist who is doing the clinical studies shortly already knows it will be a success.The problem with clinical studies is nobody really cares if a product is working and there getting results thats all that really matters,if somebody purchases a drug from a pharmceutical company and its working then thats great,here in canada i asked over 2000 health food stores and just about more naturalpaths,homeopaths,herbalist and doctors who use nutritional products and all of them rank e3live as o top 5 food product in the country.You still have not even tried the product to see for yourself,people pay lots of money for drugs that have been clinically proven by bad scientist simply because there paid off by our big pharma boys so they can continue to get rich and get people sicker,who pays for all our doctors in universities,all our terrible bad scientist likr kamel you guessed it,our BIG BROTHER PHARMA,no wonder alot of them are starting to practice natural nutrition now and are giving up on allopathic medicine because it continues to fail and let our people down.

kamel said...

I had thought this conversation had ended ages ago. I guess I was wrong

John, as far as I can tell there is no specific Canadian website for e3live, just which makes plenty of nebulous health claims. Even so, the one section of that site that *is* directed specifically at Canadians still has nonsense about 'high life force' food which means nothing. Furthermore even if e3live is totally above board in Canada, can we not still be angered by the company's practices in the US and elsewhere? Finally, you personally have made plenty of claims about e3live in the over 100 comments that precede this one (both health claims and claims about how it works). We've been over it all before. I'd rather not have the exact same conversation over and over again. Unless, of course, you have something new to bring to the table.

As for credentials, you have no idea what mine are so you're hardly in a place to comment on them. Regardless, I'm not relying on my credentials in this discussion. I've never made any kind of appeal to my authority on the issue. As for me being a terrible, bad scientist: That's certainly a different tune from earlier when you called me a good scientist, and again a statement that you have no evidence for. I haven't even been involved in the recent conversation. What's changed?

Either way, you don't seem to have anything new to add to the discussion other than personal commentary. Feel free to continue to comment, and I will continue to be amused by their inanity and their inherent contradiction ("Big Pharma" is paying off scientists to keep allopathy going and supress natural medicin, but giving up on allopathic medicine and switching to naturopathy at the same time??)

john said...

if you hit the canadian flag at the bottom of the website thats the canadian version,in health stores in canada there are no claims and pamphlets,people just buy lots of bottles,most products in canada have claims on the bottle or info pamphlets or trifolds,they don't

john said...

canadians are much more wiser then americains,when i ask the stores if the people want to see claims they say no,they simply just want to try the product and if they like it they buy it "just like if you like a certain kind of apples you buy it" the stores say the product grows from word of mouth and from high end people who reccommed it,thats what seperates the good products from the other ones.E3 live in canada never promtes with claims or trifolds and pamphlets,they never put adds in health magazines like thousands of other products yet they sell alot more then the products in canada that advertise up the ying yang and spend thousands of dollars on adds and make trifolds and claims on the bottle.

kamel said...

John, thanks for the clarification. I take it you don't have any real issues with that part of bill C-51?

Anonymous said...

if you hit the canadian flag at the bottom of the website thats the canadian version

So what you're saying is that to get to the canadian specific stuff you have to first go to the page with all the claims. And what about the claims you, personally, as a seller of this crap have made all throughout this post? What about places like this: That's a canadian store and has all sorts of health claims about e3live. Every time you make a point, kamel or someone else points out how it's wrong. You're full of shit john, why should we continue to believe you?

john said...

Bill C-51 was so supposed to be rammed thru without the public and opinion of canadians,our minister tony clement is at it again and has attempted for the 5th time,he has failed all the time,figures he owns 25% of a pharmaceutical company and thats a fact,the NDP and Bloc quebecois is agaiinst it,basically C-51 is made by international authorities to implement CODEX quickly in North America,one canadians will not be fooled.If he is really concerned about the health canadians he would remove tobbacco,alcohol,sugar,junk food like mcdonalds,drugs etc but why most of it is owned by the government and big co-operations who don't care about you or me.Bill C-51 was introduced a friend of mine in parliament said so many canadians complained that Tony clements secretary quit,harper can't believe all the shit its causing,even people who were skeptical of the health industry even freaking out at are leaders.Will see how it all plays out.I totally understand about protecting canadians but i don't think thats there agenda actually just about all canadians don't believe that,Get rid of them all i say because there only in favour of Big Money not what we think.

john said...

There is no control of what website puts on what they want,its a free country,i don't know what the rules are for that.But if look at the canadian label of the product there is 0 claims only food claims,90% of canadians don't even go to the website,most people who drink e3 live are into studying Natural foods and know what products work and what don;t.It sells on word of mouth,in the states you can make all the claims you want so people are doing that,and i never said you should believe me you still have not even tried the product so once again why should even believe you,i believe in the product and thats whats important and hundreds of thousands of other people believe in it too.Its always rated the top food product in canada the last 5 years from doctors,atlhletes,scientists,naturalpaths,skeptics like you etc why don't you try and see for yourself,you can even get kamel and do a clinical study on yourselves and see.

john said...

when you buy a pack of cigarretes it clearly states on the product,CAUSES LUNG CANCER etc now i don't know about you but should'nt Mr.Clement and MR.HAPER remove these off the shelves to protect us canadians really don't they care about us,no we should have a chioce if we want to be unhealthy or not but why now the health industry which has never killed anyone in the history of natural health products and according to a leading expert in this field who says the risk factor of NHP is like 0 %.We all know that this is a result of BIG PHARMA and even the skeptics know it and are finding out about it,heck are health minister owns some of it,shawn buckley knows what health canada is all about because everytime he fights them in court he simply wins,chiv chopra a health canada scientist who is sueing health canada is ready to launch his book which will enter alot of canadians homes very soon and reveal what they are really up to,

rob said...

I can see you are passionate about natural health products ect. However I really can't read anymore of your ramblings. Your comments are extremely hard to interpret because your grammar is UNBELIEVABLY bad. Kamel has way more patience than I do and his persistence in entertaining your inane banter is of epic proportions. I hope it is not the natural health products that you take causing some neurological symptoms manifesting themselves in nonlinear thought patterns resulting in your difficult to follow comments on this blog. However we won't know if that is the case because natural health products are exempt from rigorous testing and studies to determine optimal dose.

Anonymous said...

My name is Zheng.

I found this blog and loooong string of comments when researching StemEnhance as a potential supplement to my diet. The 2 hours of almost addictive reading and entertainment is definitely more than I expected! I have to say both sides had equal claims on me, with pretty much all the reason on one side and incoherent fun on the other. Seriously, though, I believe the best thing for me to do right now is to leave my bottle of StemEnhance unopened untill I can at least feel reasonably assured of its safety. Just because I already paid for it doesn't mean I should also risk getting cancer. What cancer? I read else where that quoted several papers saying there is evidence that release of bone-marrow stem cells may introduce cancer or make it more aggressive. Sorry for being lazy and not posting the link for my source. I'm just not personally invested in either side of this argument to do all that work.

I consider myself reasonably open minded, though not usually keen on experimenting with my own body. I recently started getting acupuncture and cupping treatments for neck and shoulder pain. When I asked my acupuncturist to recommend some herbs and supplements, she mentioned that she's been taking StemEnhance for several months and feels that it's helpful. She did not advise me to try it but instead send me some information on it so I can decide. It is my own fault that I got lazy and decided to buy a bottle before even reading the information. I'm glad I decided to do some research before actually taking the pills. My research led me to some pretty serious criticisms of this product. I'm also glad that my acupuncturist didn't push this stuff to me but instead asked me to make an informed decision for myself. Now I trust her more because of it.

Anyway, I'm choosing stay away from this miracle healer because I'm basically a healthy person with just some minor shoulder and neck pains due to my chronic poor posture. I wouldn't mind help in the form of a supplement if I'm convinced it's safe, or its benefits clearly outweigh possible risks. I'm just not convinced by the information I can find on this. Now, if I had serious health problems and not much can make it any worse, then I'd say "why not?" Then I'd take the risk, and hope for the best. Whether I should pay $120 a month for this hope is a decision I have to make, ideally not under pressure from anyone.

So, thanks to the author and Kamel for raising good questions about this product. Thanks to Alex for some very amusing posts. When I read your first comment I thought it was a parody. LOL! James, good luck with everything.

john said...

Blue-green algae are scientifically known as Cyanobacteria. The colour of the species recognized first of all was blue-green which led to their naming. Algae of many other colours were identified later on.These range from olive-green to red. Cyanobacteria can be found every where as every habitat suits their reproduction and growth. They can be found from oceans to fresh water to bare rock to soil. Cyanobacteria form in shallow, warm, slow-moving or still water. They are made up of cells, which can house poisons called cyanobacterial toxins. A mass of cyanobacteria in a body of water is called a bloom. When this mass rises to the surface of the water, it is known as surface scum or a surface water bloom.

Cyanobacteria include unicellular, colonial, and filamentous forms. Some filamentous colonies can be differentiated into three different cell types: vegetative cells are the normal photosynthetic cells that are formed under favorable growing conditions; akinetes are the climate-resistant spores that may form when environmental conditions become harsh; and thick-walled heterocysts that contain the enzyme nitrogenase, vital for nitrogen fixation, that may also form under the appropriate environmental conditions (anoxic) wherever nitrogen is necessary.

Heterocyst-forming species are specialized for nitrogen fixation. As plants cannot use nitrogen, Heterocysts fix nitrogen into ammonia (NH3), nitrites (NO2-) or nitrates (NO3-), which can be absorbed by plants and converted to protein and nucleic acids.

Each individual cell typically has a thick, gelatinous cell wall, which stains gram-negative. They don't have moving organs flagella. But they may move about by gliding along surfaces. Some of them float in water column due to the ability to form gas vesicles.

Cyanobacteria are mostly found in fresh water, while others are marine, occur in damp soil, or even temporarily moistened rocks in deserts. A few are endosymbionts in lichens, plants, various protists, or sponges and provide energy for the host. Some live in the fur of sloths, providing a form of camouflage.

For photosynthesis, Cyanobacteria have an elaborate and highly organized system of internal membranes. Photosynthesis in cyanobacteria generally uses water as an electron donor and produces oxygen as a by-product. However, some may also use hydrogen sulfide as occurs among other photosynthetic bacteria. Carbohydrates are formed from carbon dioxide via the Calvin cycle. In most forms the photosynthetic machinery is embedded into folds of the cell membrane, called thylakoids. The activities of ancient cyanobacteria are considered to be responsible for the creation of the large amounts of oxygen in the atmosphere in the early thimes.Tthey are often found as symbionts with a number of other groups of organisms such as fungi (lichens), corals, pteridophytes (Azolla), angiosperms (Gunnera) etc due to their ability to fix nitrogen in aerobic conditions.

The cyanobacteria were traditionally classified by morphology into five sections referred to by the numerals I-V. The first three - Chroococcales, Pleurocapsales, and Oscillatoriales - are not supported by phylogenetic studies. However, the latter two - Nostocales and Stigonematales - are monophyletic, and make up the heterocystous cyanobacteria. The members of Chroococales are unicellular and usually aggregated in colonies. The classic taxonomic criterion has been the cell morphology and the plane of cell division. In Pleurocapsales, the cells have the ability to form internal spores (baeocytes). The rest of the sections include filamentous species.

In Oscillatorialles, the cells are uniseriately arranged and do not form specialized cells (akinets and heterocysts). In Nostocalles and Stigonematalles the cells have the ability to develop heterocysts in certain conditions. Stigonematales, unlike Nostocalles include species with truly branched trichome.

Some species of cyanobacteria produce neurotoxins, hepatotoxins, cytotoxins, and endotoxins, making them dangerous to animals and humans. Some are known to attack the liver (hepatotoxins) or the nervous system (neurotoxins); others simply irritate the skin. These toxins are usually released into water when the cells rupture or die. If a person ingests water, fish or blue-green algal products containing elevated levels of toxins, he may experience headaches, fever, diarrhoea, abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting. While swimming in contaminated water, a person may get itchy and irritated eyes and skin, as well as other hay fever-like allergic reactions. If a person comes into contact with cyanobacterial toxins and is experiencing any of these symptoms, he should rinse any scum off his body and consult his physician immediately.

Cyanobacteria toxins are even more harmful to animals. The animal could become extremely ill and even die.

Some cyanobacteria are very beneficial and are sold as food, notably Aphanizomenon flos-aquae (E3live) and Arthrospira platensis (Spirulina). It has been suggested that they could be a much more substantial part of human food supplies, as a kind of superfood. Along with algae, some hydrogen producing cyanobacteria are being considered as an alternative energy source.

john said...

Fresh Water Algae as a human supplement

About 20 years ago, Viiktoras Kulvinskascame to me and suggested we look at the use of Fresh Water Algae, since the Asians were very much involved with taking the supplement. They wisely sent the compilation of research that had been collected over half a century on the subject, and it was very surprising to me, since this was something that I knew nothing about.
It was impressive enough so that what I did next is say ok, let's do some research. In my household I have four children. These four children are the Clement/Finney kids, and I always like to use things that I believe would be helpful on them, because they were like little clean blackboards.
They I thought were absolutely 100% healthy and that they could not possibly get healthier. The big problem for this particular study is that we literally had to do weekly blood tests for two months, when we found out that these little spectacularly healthy clean blackboards became bigger blackboards and healthier.
So that was impressive enough to come in here, and do a big Guinea Pig study, we call them double blind studies that I knowingly and willingly have to lie through my teeth to half the group, because we tell all of you that you're on Algae, and the other half we had on green clay and veggie caps.
Now, why do you think that is? For Placebo, because that rules out the psychological factor that people play into when it comes to faking something. We were shocking impressed by three months, continue that for another year and a quarter, and fully embraced about nineteen or twenty years ago the use of Fresh Water Algae as a supplement. This is the only supplement I will look you into the eye and say to you that you should take the rest of your life, period. Now I'll tell you why.

I originally bought into the salesmanship of the companies that have distributed them where they said it's a mineral; it's a mineral stupid, that makes you healthy. And so, I looked at that and believed it. So it took me three years to get over my academic training, and I started to see something else that I believed, and that most people today would still believe couldn't happen. Their constitution started to improve. Now what does that mean?

All of us were literally born with constitutions from our ancestors, the strength of our bodies from our ancestors. The general rule today is if you are eighty years old or above, you potentially have a very good one. If you're eighty years old and below you potentially have a bad one.

The younger you are the weaker it is. Because now we've had three or four generations that are literally doing abnormal things comparative to what humanity has done prior to this. Exercise, eat Organic food, and act.

After about the twenty fifth person I validated the reality that I was seeing what I saw. Because eighty percent of you returned to Hippocrates , so I get to know some of you intimately. I get to know your blood as well as I know you and your name. And when I started to see your immune function, in particular ratios in immunological function change, we looked into it deeper and saw genetic changes.

Now if you listen to the very first words in that film, they said something powerfully important. They said the very first life form on this planet was, Blue Green Algae. And what does that mean? It means it created all other life, because Blue Green Algae created Oxygen, and all other life came after that. Now after I pondered that a long time and threw it around as a scenario to some of my Scientist friends. They agreed that probably my theory was right.

If you look at Blue Green Algae as number one in numbers, or A in the alphabet, or fundamental or foundational, it's just like this little shack we're in now. The very first things they had to build is what? The floor, and that's how important Blue Green Algae is the floor where all other things were built on.

What differentiates all of the six and one half billion people on the earth now, what's the other three letters? You hit it, DNA. So now what we understand and have for about fifteen years is that what Blue Green Algae does is effectively strengthen the DNA, allowing the constitution to strengthen. Now how does that happen?

Let me give you some pictures that are just portrayals not realities. If you look at DNA they are long strands of not so interesting elongated rectangles. But let's make believe that they are a cement floor. Now if you pour a cement floor when it's 70 degrees and there's no humidity and there's no wind I assure you that cement is going to be very powerfully strong, and last for a long time. But how about if I poured cement on a day like this, where it was humid, rainy, windy.

If you looked at that cement it would have cracks and crevices in it. Little pits in it. Most of your DNA has little cracks and crevices and pits. What I want you to do is to picture that what the Blue Green Algae does is fill up those little holes and those little abnormalities. Now why is this important in English to you? It's important because if people are responsible enough to take charge of their life and start to think positively, eat positively and exercise well, you will live longer and you will become healthier.

I'm now adding an extra attraction for you. If you take Blue Green Algae you'll live even longer, because what it's going to do is give your foundation the ability to last further into years than it would otherwise. Now let me talk about the different kinds of Blue Green Algae that we. A lot of you get excited and say I'm not on it, and some of you may not be till the end of your stay. Blue Green Algae’s are such things as Life Give live. That's an interesting story so we'll talk about it.

A number of years ago there was a young brother and sister here. He was very sick for a long time; by the end of the three week program he had greatly resolved his problem. In small talk I was discussing where are you from, what do you do. They said we're from Klamath Lake, we grew up there and we collect algae and we flash freeze it, and sell it to people for their animals.

And my little light bulb goes on and I say well, why you don’t call the food and drug administration and see if humans can take that. Assuming that they'd never do it and knowing the food and drug administration always have one or two letter word... No. Unless it's a pharmaceutical then it's always yes.

So, the reality is, two months later they called back to me and said they've approved it! Now I knew from the very beginning that this was going to a superior product. Because all that they do is go into the lake and remove most of the water, then take the algae in small amounts of water and flash freeze it. So there's very little tampering when it comes to this.

The other powdered ones although very well taken care of, and heated at a low temperature over a long period of time, are going to have a little big more tampering, obviously than flash freezing it on the spot.

So Life Give Live, when I started to take it I felt something. Now I thought it was placebo. I felt when I was at the gym it was easier for me to lift heavier weights. So what I did is I stopped taking it for two weeks. I then took it again and I observed the same. I'm not one of those lucky people that feel supplements. Some of you do.

Some of you can't even take algae’s after twelve o clock in the afternoon. You'll be up running around at night and that's about fifteen or twenty percent of you. I don't care if I took a bottle I'd go to sleep at nine if I could. I'm not lucky like that. This I felt the difference. And we now confirm we think it's about forty percent more effective and less expensive. That last part is nice, less expensive.

The problem is, people who travel around can’t carry frozen algae, so then we have to take the Life Give body. Then you have a small group of prima donnas that don't like the taste of cold frozen stuff that's slimy green. So, the prima donnas will pay more, get less and take the body. So travelers or prima donnas will probably take the body. Then you have one a lot of you we're put on Brain. Now it's not because we think it makes you smarter we think you're quite smart enough or you wouldn't be here. We're going to really see if you're smart if you continue this.


What it does is activate endorphins in the brain. Endorphins are happy juice. The happier you become the nicer you become to who, yourself. And what you do is when you're nice to yourself you eat right, you exercise and you say nice things and you hang out with nice people. You’re not as skeptical about your life, and that's what we like. Then you have two interesting ones. The next one is called Ficoman. About eleven years ago I got a call from the leading Biochemist Expert on Blue Green Algae’s; he said you know we found lots of elements within the Blue Green Algae that are extremely effective. But we don't have a way to take them out. Several years ago he called and said they did. So they take pounds of algae and they extract out Phycomin. Phycomin is a phyto-nutrient complex that literally shuts off the bad psychiatric problems of the brain. I've been blessed to use this now for the last several years because it's really helped us with people who want to minimize or eliminate psychiatric medicine. Phycomin does exactly what I said. Everyone from Bipolar to severe Depression, to schizophrenia it has made inroads with.

Again, there is about twenty percent of those people that will remain on psychiatric drugs the rest of their life, nothing will happen other than that. But about eighty percent you have the way grace to come away from them. Again that's phycomin. The second thing they found a Co-Enzyme (Q10) inhibitor. The name of that product is Aphanin. Some of you who have swelling, pain, rheumatoid problems, Arthritic Osteo Arthritis, Osteo conditions we may put you on that. You may remember the Co-Enzyme (Q10) inhibitors, the bad ones that are made in laboratories that mimic were taken off of the market. This is the good one that's a living one, that basically makes you nourished and healthy in the process of helping you take swelling and pain away.

A lot of you we're told to get on the one that I take everyday also, Power Powder. Power Powder was our attempt to make the best Green Product on the market, and we believed we had. About ten years ago or so I was up in Montreal Canada, as I was last weekend, and somebody said why does Hippocrates make supplements, and I said because either you're being overcharged on the marketplace as you would with Chlorella, and we don't want that to happen because we buy them too.

Or number two, they are not on the marketplace. And they said isn't it the finest quality that you could possibly make, I said yes. And that young man that asked the question challenge and said that you don't have the best green product. I said who does? He gave me the name, and he was right.

But although we labored for three years to put that product together, somebody had a better product. I was fortunate to have that question given the number. The young man that now makes a green product for us which is an A plus, plus, plus product was the man that invented green products in 1971 when he brought himself to life with this.

And Power Powder is something that people under an inordinate amount of stress or pressure, or athletic people should take. So again somebody under stress you just become CEO of a major corporation, or somebody who has a child that's having problems, or a bad marriage. An athlete, because they need extra power, and it helps very much to do that.

One that all of you are going to be put on at the end, is called internal cleaner, and It's not completely algae, but in great part.

We were tired of the common colon cleansing products on the market, internal cleansing products. They all pretty much did the same, they took stuff out of the body and raked the body, sort of like in a rough way, sandpaper way. We wanted to nourish the body as we helping cleanse the body. So we used a whole lot of algae along with other enzymes and mixtures in it. So we gently and more effectively get between the cracks and the crevices and it helps to eliminate large amounts of poison.

We also found that most people have digestion elimination problems, and because you have digestion elimination problems everyone tells you it's a product you have to buy. We realize that it's really the muscle structure that's lacking. In both your digestion and elimination system. So when you're checking out Anna Marie will be clearly telling you how to use this on paper and what we're going to do.

Let's imagine its January... You'll take it in January, not in February. Take it in March, not in April. Take it in May, not in June. Why? Because when you lose weight you don't lose muscle. When you stop lifting weight you build muscle. So over the next year everyone will take internal cleanser to further cleanse yourself, to rid yourself more rapidly and readily and passively with all the toxins that you collected for decades and at the same time you will help to renew and strengthen, or for the first time develop gastrointestinal muscle structure and elimination canal muscle structure.

The other algae that I take and a lot of you have been based on has been the green algae and that green algae is called Chlorella. That one was fortunate to come into the blood sugar concern, and the eating disorder concern issues. What we realize is that if you took you took a green drink made of sprouts, you regulate blood sugar. So when I was helping people years ago with low or high blood sugar I would always say make green drinks with sprouts, they always work.

Fifteen, twenty, thirty minutes they regulate, all at once your not going to want a candy bar, you're not going to have your sugar going, act... But how many of us can marry a juicer. I know I can't that's simple.

So we resolved it a number of years ago by saying let's take Chlorella and put it in a little plastic bag in our pockets, purses, whatever it may be. And every time you either want a candy bar because you have an eating disorder, or every time you're starting to feel like you know, that...

You take five of those stick them in your mouth, and swallow, and within fifteen, twenty, thirty minutes later blood sugar is regulated, you're not doing something whacky to harm yourself, act. So this is the scenario when it comes to the algae’s, different ones. By the time you leave Hippocrates you'll be placed on some sort of algae, once again because it's the only thing we know of today that effects the DNA, it's the only supplement I can look you in the eye without wavering and say you should take forever.

My family and I take four or five forms of algae consistently. Now that doesn't mean you have to. We're suggestion that I'm pretty active and so I fair to do that.

We'll answer three questions specific to algae. Nothing other than algae, yes...

She's asking about different kinds of algae. For years we used the Cell Tech Company is an excellent company, it's more expensive than it should be. The quality is good. They don't offer things such as Sun Chlorella that we do.

The other thing that's Chlorella that Life Give Chlorella is Sun Chlorella in our container for two and a half times less money. Because I was like you, remember I'm feeding four children and Anna and I Chlorella. Even if I get it wholesale, it's not inexpensive when you're taking twenty or thirty of these a day each.

So the reality is, years ago the Sun Chlorella chose without asking me to make me America's leading authority on Algae, which I wasn't and still am not. So fifteen, eighteen years ago I see my picture in this health magazine, and it says America's leading health authority on algae. So I finally got the number of the Japanese man, who owned the Sun Chlorella Company, and I called and he was so cute because his first words we're... You No Sue Me. He knew I was an American, so I said me no sue you but...

What I want is for you to convert over into English some of the most important research, not that I'll be an expert, 'cause there are people who will know a lot more than I'll ever know on this. But just so I can articulate since you've made me an expert. And so I learned a lot from them about that. So that's what we chose to do, because they owed us the favor, they have allowed us to do that for over a decade.
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Cris90 said...

hi is any1 has any questions they would like to ask a high ranking in Stem Enhance tell me my uncle is Izzy Matos so i can forward a question. Email me at

Anonymous said...

How do you become high ranking in the stem enhance pyramid marketing? Sell the most pills or worship lord xenu?

Anonymous said...

Why is the grammer on the pro-Stem enhance comments so poor (and long winded) while those skeptical are much better written? Is StemEnhance largely from a non-English country or are the people making comments here in defense of StemEnhance ALL REALLY STUPID. John, I'm looking your way. Please tell us english is your second language. It would make me feel better that the skeptics here aren't just picking on a schizophrenic.

Anonymous said...

Just read most of this thread, coming back tomorrow to read the rest. I was researching Stem Enhance and was interested in taking it - but Alex and John (same person methinks) put me RIGHT off. Not to put to fine a point on it, they are both too thick. Plus they are swearing. PLUS I hate their terrible grammar. Call me a pedant, but you must learn "you are = you're NOT your".
Kamal you are hilarious & cool. You got it spot on when you said "there's no sense that you even understand what I'm saying as you don't engage the ideas being presented". But Mr. Alex/John won't engage with or understand that unfortunately.

Alfredrichh Kok said...

I think chollera is bad for the liver. After taking it my body is now full of "age spots "

Anonymous said...

A person with an experience is never at the mercy of someone with an argument.

kamel said...

"A person with an experience is never at the mercy of someone with an argument."

Fine. But those experiences need to be studied in a rigorous manner before claims can be made. That's where the argument comes in.

As I've explained before, there are reasons why a personal positive experience with StemEnhance may not be because of the product itself. Read these posts for example.

If you're going to reduce everything to experience with no argument, experiment or thought then you have a problem. Why does Person A's positive experience trump Person B's negative experience? Remember, since experience is never at the mercy of argument, you can't use an argument from logic or reason...

Anonymous said...

If you looked at that cement it would have cracks and crevices in it. Little pits in it. Most of your DNA has little cracks and crevices and pits. What I want you to do is to picture that what the Blue Green Algae does is fill up those little holes and those little abnormalities.

LOL most ridiculous beleif ever! Makes the molecular biologist in me cringe

Anonymous said...

Your so full of shit.
If you are not going to trust the natural, proven healing powers of Blue Green Algae, you'd better get that molecular biologist, that's apparently 'inside you' to get fixing the little cracks, crevices and pits (CCPs) in your credibility gene.
I bet your DNA looks like old cement.

Anonymous said...

I only needed to get as far as this sentence ... "A whopping increase from 0.062% to 0.085% (which of course is billed as a 30% increase)." to know that you have some ax to grind and don't know mathematics. Actually that increase would be 37.0967742% mathematically speaking. They are doing the understatement and you are doing the overstatement. If you are going to criticize a man at least get your math straight if not your bogus opinions!

Kamel said...

Actually, genius, it's 37%. There are only 2 significant figures there. Maybe you should brush up on your math yourself. Oh, and the 30% number isn't mine... it's from the StemEnhance sales pitch. You may want to work on reading comprehension while you're at it.

mboy said...

Interesting post, Im loving it.. I feel a bit for the stemenhance guys, at the end of the day all they should have to do is prove its not harmful and I dont see the problem.. If people are noticing benefits and starting to love life again then I dont think we should be on there backs. So maybe its a placebo, the mind is powerful dont we know it, but the world needs some better hypnotic suggestions than the ones we have been given.. (every national security threat is preceded with a warning telling us how much terror we should all feel!!)
The argument is over providing evidence that this product does what it says on the tin, the science guys want concrete proof.. the stemenhance guys have millions of people who are happy and loving life, testimonial.. so what really is truth? can truth be subjective? If something works in my experience then can It not become my truth.. I choose my experience over the words of someone else because I can trust it more...
Ok so you could take stemenhance to a lab.. and say its not producing as much stemcell activity as we thought, and disprove it all and call everyone they then stop taking them, do they get to feel lousy again.. 'darn it it was all a placebo..' I say results count in how you feel and how you look in the healthcare industry.. I have heard stories about people healing themsleves through laughter, that says it all really.. so are the stemenhance guys really criminals here.. they tried it it worked for them, they told there plas.. it worked for them, it grew into a company.. It wouldnt be able to be so successfull if there wasnt something helping them.. It created capital to put back into the country, It gave jobs to people, It gave people a bit of hope.. Is that such a crime.. should we really take every herbal remedy out there and crush it and disprove it just to feel all big and clever.. I say nay!!! let us have our cures and DNA fixing potions.. lets test them to see there not dangerous and then make the claims even more outlandish.. if it stops us all taking drugs and living unhappy lives then why not? I had heard that every drug on the market is tested against placebos.. I have heard placebos are some of the most versatile and effective drug ever. shame we cant just market them.. that would be interesting... new improved 'PLACIBO', twice as strong as before.. but of course that isnt allowed, so maybe something else has to fill the void.. maybe thats stemenhance, maybe not, perhaps it does have theraputic benefits.. I have a feeling its a mixture of both to be honest.. so it gets my thumbs up for just now.. though Im using something new I discovered.. its a theraputic vodkaenhance drink, it helps relaxation and sexual magnetism, you should all give it a try some time :)

Ron said...

Kemel, you should be a character on Hero's. I never believed that anyone, anywhere in the universe could have the patience you have shown. I read the first 100 posts on this blog and I think I have now lost my mind. I had to run down to my basement to scream.
Let me counter John in his own style for a moment.

"Stemtech does NOT work. I can prove it! I know a guy who is a lawer... and he knows a guy who is a scientist.. a really old scientist in the Himalayas. And he has one million pages of proof it doesn't work. And if thats not enough for ya I'll post a link to a youtube video on a totaly unrelated subject. What's that? Where's the one hundred pages of proof? uh.. The FDA sucks! There.. what more do you want?."

Kamel, your going to heaven cause you've already been through hell.

Ron Seaton

Anonymous said...

Just throwing my 2 cents in. How do animals know about the placebo effect? If its that much of a scam then why do animals seem to respond to it? And also I would have to say you can't knock it till you try it. If you are not willing to try it then you must accept the claims of the people who have tried it. Case in point, I know if I take a poisen it will make me sick or kill me. I know this not from my experience but from the experience and testimonies of others. Did it take a scientist to figure out that rotten food can make you sick, no it was an observation from common man. I'm also guessing the author of the this post is not a Christian. I am and I can only tell people about changes in my life, for some that is enough, for others its not. For those that its not, then they spend an eternity in hell, for those that it is, I will see you in Heaven. Just remember this for anyone thats a Christian reading this.

Kamel said...

Wow, still getting comments.

Ron, thanks for the support. Maybe they could use me for Heroes - one of the above commenters suggested I can make people stupider. That's a power, right?

Anonymous, where is this animal data? It's probably as elusive as the human clinical trials. But lets suppose for a moment that rock solid animal data exists and shows miraculous results: 1) It's pretty well known that some interventions work well in animal models but are not effective when transferred to humans and 2) This post is about the human data that was available. I would think that looking at *human* results should tell us something about *human* efficacy better than any animal trials.

And yes, it's perfectly valid to reject the health claims of people without any proper study or controls. Would you take any ol' pill I offered you just because I have a bunch of people you've never met, with no evidence, who vouch for it? I've written a series of posts explaining why proper controlled trials are done and why people may THINK they're being helped by a product when it has no effect. You should check it out. It's just a handful of reasons why you shouldn't just trust testimony.

But thanks for passing judgement on my religious beliefs based on a single blog post that has nothing to do with religion. It saddens me that I might end up in hell for expressing an honest opinion about a health product. To suggest eternal damnation seems a bit harsh simply for disagreeing with you. In fact it seems a bit, I don't know, un-Christian.

Anonymous said...

I feel quite torn about this product. Out of sheer desperation, we decided to have Hubby take it because his heart disease was getting worse. No positive thinking was changing the fact that he was gasping for breath in the morning before he took his meds, meds his body didn't beg for a year ago. We knew something hadn't changed. I'm happy to say that he isn't as gaspy now, three weeks later. We are very concerned about him taking this product, just because we aren't interested in being scammed. But I can't explain any other reason for him breathing better. I wish there were more studies on this product to see if its benefits can be proven with a large population.
Also, just a thought: I have worked reflexology for thirty years and have helped many people. But there are some I haven't been able to help. Sometimes when I use peppermint on some folks, it helps their pain. Other times, they need a product called biofreeze to make the pain go away. Some products work well on some and not so well on others. The same is somewhat true of western medicine/drugs. I just wish people could keep an open mind.
And I wish Stem tech weren't a MLM. What a shame.

Anonymous said...

For Kamel and the other skeptics - we are in the process of initiating clinical trials with StemEnhance in patients with various conditions that tend to have positive anecdotal responses to the product. This will take time - give us a couple years - but I'll be glad to report the outcomes in the scientific literature when they are completed.

Anonymous said...

To the anonymous comment above:
Awesome! Perhaps this should have been done BEFORE selling the product to human guinea pigs? If this were a big pharma company people would not be as forgiving for selling first and testing later.
Also if you could answer the question: I thought that a clinical trial had to be on a single malady? Each condition has to be treated as a separate trial. No? I'm sure that even StemEnhance does not have the cash required for multiple clinical trials.
In any case if a peer reviewed publication on the clinical trials is ever published and the results show a positive effect, the Babylab should definitely do a post on it.

Anonymous said...

I have been on Stem Enhance for over two years. I was wheel chair bond. I suffered all the time and the pain in my body was just painfull. I can walk now and I feel that with the help of the Stem Enhance. My folks and family take it. I have see a big change for them as well.

Breathing well now thank you. said...

"I can breathe again"! All I can say is that I put off taking this crap because it's MLM. People in MLM scare me. I googled and found enough people saying that it's a MLM scam or a rip off with no actual evidence that it worked. So I started taking it. As you do. Because none of the drugs or doctors had an answer or a solution to my badly damaged sinuses from having my face smashed in rugby 12 years ago. 12 years of meds, three surgical procedures to remove bone, cartilage, scar tissue yada yada yada. Hallee-f'ing-llujah (sorry) no more drugs, no more migraines, no more constantly watering eyes, allergies! It's cheaper than the meds and surgery and guess what - for me it changed my life - in 6 months. Maybe not for you scientists who know everything yet you haven't even done any laboratory tests on the product yoursleves...? You haven't even tried taking it... Hello? Shut your petree hole until you've done some beaker work for yourselves - what the hell would you know otherwise? OHHHH, you know what you read by other scientists - who haven't done any hands-on-research either..?.. Don't tell me this stuff doesn't work!!! Christian what's-his-face deserves my respect. MLM is not for me but hey, if these people get this stuff out there and it helps others like me - all power to them.

Anonymous said...

I thought I should remain open minded, and I had no other alternative so I bought some of those pills to give to my wife who had cancer. Nothing happened, in fact she got worse fast. And even though we had no money left we got caught in the pyramid scheme owing thousands of dollars. It's a scam, and it kills people, and I've met hundreds of other people by the internet who are in the same situation as me who could give you a testimonial. Yet the same few people working there harqass us and post messages on blogs and websites trying to convince you to buy their crap. It's a conspiracy. Wake up people!


Anonymous said...

I'm sure Christian Drapeau is sincerely convinced of the miraculous nature of this product. But going back a few years, he did the SAME THING with Cell-Tech's Blue Green Algae, which turned out to have serious problems with toxicity. It was a miracle food, why Olympic athletes like Dan O'Brien used it among others. And again, the product was sold in an MLM structure. That's a problem right there - it's like he shape-shifted from one miracle cure to another. The problem with these things is that they're so overrated by the very people who stand to profit the most from them.

Anonymous said...

Lifeenhancingtec said and I quote "you have just know idea.... because it isn't what you make it to be. Stick to what you know more about live the business world alone. Either we are all stupid and you are just so smart and above us all." I guess his last sentence is correct, and this guy is supposed to have a Masters and doing a dissertation for a PHD? God help us all!

Anonymous said...

Very fascinating opinions..I am from Sabah, Malaysia and have just been told of the potential effectiveness of StemTech Enhance on all kind of ailments.

Can anyone tell me whether they are cases where taking StemTech Enhance causes death, sickness etc...

If you cannot then I think some people are only trying to show to the would how intellectual they are...

I am going to take StemTech Enhance ... like Marilyn.

AND Kamel all the best with your intellectual empirical research and discourse..

Is there a God?


Kamel said...


Whether StemEnhance has directly caused the deaths of anybody is mostly irrelevant. The issue is that it makes health claims that aren't supported by the available data.

For example, homeopathy (which is essentially treating somebody with water) is unlikely to kill anybody directly. It can kill if it's taken at the expense of demonstrably effective treatments. (Say you passed up on chemo for StemEnhance of homeopathy and succumbed to cancer, nobody would say that the "treatment" killed you) Even if this is a remote possibility - which is a point I don't concede - these untested, unproven treatments strip people of their money with no promises of improved health but no real evidence to support it. This is the very definition of fraud and is reason enough for opposition.

Since you plan on using StemEnhance, best of luck to you and I'm glad you have money to burn. Please don't neglect real treatment for whatever ailments you might have.

Trent said...

Notice in the original article that he doesn't really answer his own questions. He just gives opinion.

I know a man who fell 100 feet off a chalet in Tennessee and was pronounced dead at the scene...yet he lived with many broken bones and shifted organs. His mom sells this stuff and started giving him doses and the doctors were even commenting on how fast he was healing. He is now standing and walking and carrying on with life just 2 years after the accident. You can't tell me that it didn't have a significant effect.

I don't care how large or small the difference is in stem cell release...the fact is that it does increase stem cell production. The original poster could never refute that.

Kamel said...

I do dispute that. It's right there with that figure I pulled from their paper. The question was rhetorical, and the answer is no. The data I have shown above - their data - does not convincingly show an increase in circulating stem cells. I would hope that between the original post and the 180+ comments I don't have to repeat myself as to why.

That said, I agree with you: I generally don't really care how large or small the difference is in stem cell release. I care about whether that release, if it exists, does what it claims.

Let me tell you a story. I have a friend* who jumped from a high rise building. Doctors thought there was no way he would survive. He was taken to the hospital, and operated on. It seemed hopeless, but no magic seaweed was used. He recovered, with doctors amazed and hailing it at 'miraculous'. ZOMG! We don't need StemEnhance!

Are you convinced? Then why should I be by your tale? I'm not calling you a liar, but simply pointing out that you're engaged in logical fallacy. It even has a name: "post hoc, ergo propter hoc". There are many reasons why a treatment may appear to work, but in fact doesn't. I've written about some of them here. There's a reason why clinical trials are the standard by which treatments are judged, and not storytelling or rumour. As the saying goes, the plural of anecdote is not data.

*I have no such friend, and am merely illustrating a point. However, it isn't difficult to find these kind of stories without invoking StemEnhance.

Anonymous said...

And we subsidize these "Bayblab" dimwits to get their philosophy doctorates and jerk themselves off in public?

Shut the fuck up and attempt to learn something...

Anonymous said...

FYI Christian Drapeau is a scientist. He studied AFA and its health benefits for many years prior to founding STEMTech. His studies were published. StemTech and StemEnhance grew out of his years of research. He was looking for the factors in the wide range of health benefits AFA consumers experienced. His present product and study brings to AFA consumers an extraction of the components in AFA that release stem cells from bone marrow. This effect presumeably was the cause of the benefits from eating raw AFA in capsule form. Multiple capsules of AFA (10 or more) per dose could have the same effect. Most AFA and StemEnhance consumers are happy with the results. You may debate while we become healthier. Good Luck

Kamel said...

Anonymous said: " He studied AFA and its health benefits for many years prior to founding STEMTech. His studies were published."

Wrong. In the 2+ years and almost 200 comments since this post was published, no StemEnhance supporter has been able to supply even a single link to a published study showing the claimed health benefits of StemEnhance. A literature search shows that Drapeau has 17 publications, only 4 of which have anything to do with AFA (the StemEnhance algae) or StemEnhance itself. One is the paper mentioned in this post, which shows unconvincing data for stem cell mobilization. One is about NK cell activation, but not health effect. One shows that StemEnhance doesn't make cancer worse (yay!) in a mouse model of breast cancer. The only one that deals with human health and the product's potential benefits is a review in the journal Medical Hypotheses that mentions neither AFA or StemEnhance and refers only to bone marrow stem cell mobilization. However, what's published there is the idea that it might work, not data, and it is, as it remains today, an untested hypothesis. Unless you count 'not making cancer worse' a health benefit.

"His present product and study brings to AFA consumers an extraction of the components in AFA that release stem cells from bone marrow."

See the original post and some of the ensuing comments for what I think about the quality of that data.

"This effect presumeably [sic] was the cause of the benefits from eating raw AFA in capsule form."

The key word here is 'presumably'. That's the whole point of most of this argument which has been going on for years - we don't *know*. The data isn't available; there aren't even any animal studies that suggest the claims are true. StemEnhance may be the wonder supplement you claim it to be. If it is, that should be easy to demonstrate. Maybe it does nothing except earn Drapeau money on the backs of the lower levels of the pyramid. I've already explained why your anectodes may be unreliable. Do you care to share something more substantial?

pastevens said...

I know a person that is selling this product and it is purely a pyramid selling scheme.
If you can get someone to believe that by going to a certain style of building on a Sunday and talk to a person that lives in the sky; I'm sure you can sell a little expensive tablet that does nothing and convince quite a few people that they are feeling better. A marketing scam I would say but so is religion.

Steve said...

This is an impressive thread! I am an MD and am amazed by the intensity on both sides of this argument. My thoughts - 1) the supporting study is small and naturally occurring stem cell serum concentration variations in controls and in participants cast a long shadow of doubt on the wisdom of drawing conclusions from small studies....Score one for the objectors. 2) a variation between 0.0624% and 0.0825% may be a mathematically small difference but in bio-physiology small differences can make critical impact. The 30% increase SHOULD NOT be discounted based on the difference between the percentages. Score one for the proponents.

My question- I believe a company incurs a responsibility to continue serious study WHEN they elect to use a narrowly based scientific study as the basis for their claims. When is a responsibly larger group study going to occur?

rob said...

Dr. Steve,
You are also missing the major criticism that there is no link between this stem cell serum concentration "increase" and any health benefits whatsoever.
This larger study you propose would also have to demonstrate some benefit to health don't you think?

Kamel said...

Hi Steve,
Thanks for your comment! I totally agree that larger group study is the necessary and responsible thing to do. Really, that is my main point, but I suppose it's easily lost in the hundreds of comments left here.

Naturally, I'm going to disagree with you about the percentages.

My issue with the math is:

1) I'm not convinced of an increase at all, as I said from the start. The control group has a baseline as high as the treatment group after treatment. (See the data in the original post) At the very least, this tells us that the groups are different in some way apart from the treatment making them poor choices for comparison, so what are we to take from it?

2) The issue with 30% has to do with honesty. The numbers are already presented as a percentage, and you can see the increase (if you believe it) from 0.06 to 0.08% They then take the percent change of the percen to get the number used for advertising. If you got 50% on a test, but had it regraded to 75% how would you describe that change? Would you say it went up by 50%? Or 25? The 30% is seized upon because it's nice and big and looks better in advertising than 0.02% ("Get your whites 0.02% whiter!" It'll never sell.) Use of the 30% figure is manipulative.

Yes, the 0.02% is a small number - and there's no reason to think it would have any health benefits. For that matter, there's no compelling reason to think 30% would have health benefits either. So you're right, and I agree: The 30% increase [which it's not] SHOULD NOT be discounted based on the difference between the percentages. It should be discounted based on the fact that there's no evidence that it's beneficial. As Rob points out, in much fewer words.

Prof. Ralph Napolitano said...

I have two brothers who began taking StemEnhance just under six months ago. We saw an immediate difference! My oldest brother developed aggressive Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma within three weeks, so we contacted the company, which assured us that things would have been much worse had he not been taking StemEnhance (his body was probably rife with cancers prior to taking the medication). So we upped his dosage and waited, confident in the healing power of this remarkable product. My brother decided to stop seeing his doctor about his condition, since Western medicine has a proven track record of failure, whereas the anecdotal evidence for StemEnhance is 100% positive. Later, we took my eldest brother to the doctor for the flu, not the cancer, as per his wishes, and it turned out that he had developed a severe pneumonia. Unfortunately, the doctor exceeded his authority by investigating the cancer, which had until then gone into remission. Due to the doctor performing a CT scan, my brother's cancer cells were reactivated and became even more aggressive (prior to the CT scan, StemEnhance had eliminated them entirely). When my brother explained the effectiveness of StemEnhance, the doctor was very arrogant in his reply. Because of that, my younger brother, who is very healthy and wealthy because of StemEnhance (we have proof now that it cures hepatitis and AIDS), was sentenced to prison for aggravated assault and attempted murder. The doctor survived, because my mother sent several bottles of StemEnhance to him in the hospital. Anyway, in prison, my younger brother was raped by a fellow inmate, known to have HIV. Fortunately, my brother did not contract the illness because of the StemEnhance that the warden, who also uses StemEnhance, has allowed him to retain in his cell. My older brother did end up dying because of the Azithromycin that he was forced to take for his pneumonia, even though StemEnhance had cleared it up within a day (and had also recured his cancer just prior to his death). Knowing just how bad my family's health and genetics are (my mother died shortly after my brother) I have now started using StemEnhance to safeguard myself, and I can tell you IT WORKS! Each morning, I can feel the toxins being purged from my body when I vomit. Lots of sweating too, which I know is another way for the pent up poisons that have accumulated within me to be released. All in all, MAJOR improvements after taking StemEnhance. I am smarter, faster, stronger now that I am taking it. I broke off my engagement to my girlfriend, because I am so much more intelligent than she is after I started taking StemEnhance. I heal VERY quickly from any injuries I sustain when I get dizzy and fall. I no longer feel pain! I accidentally hit my finger with a hammer, and because of StemEnhance, my body has not registered what I probably would have thought of before as a broken finger as any injury at all. It does not hurt, and I am only waiting for the finger to straighten out and the black color and swelling to go away (which it soon will). My body has shed much of its unnecessary (dead) hair, which is a reservoir for toxins and a drain on the body's resources. I feel that the change is remarkable, and that anyone who questions the effectiveness of StemEnhance really needs to try it for themselves. As you can see, I do not suffer from the same poor grammar and spelling habits that many other proponents of StemEnhance suffer from, so it should be clear that my testimony is valid and irrefutable (I am, after all, a Professor).

Cassandra "LuckDragon" Schuster said...

I also want to weigh-in in support of StemEnhance. Last week, I took a trip to Upper Klamath Lake in southern Oregon, where I swam in the blue-green algae blooms that StemEnhance is derived from. My body was soon covered in itchy red bumps, where the miraculous healing energies had entered my body. I talked to one of the cattle ranchers there, and he said that without runoff from the ranches, there wouldn't be half as much of this incredible algae. The runoff helps keep the water oxygenated -- and we all know how important oxygen is -- which causes more algae to grow, and kills off all of the fish that would otherwise eat the algae, so that we can enjoy the benefits of eating it, instead of it being wasted on some fish or contaminated with fish poop. After going for a swim in the lake, my whole body felt oxygenated, and so I am sure that the pills do the same thing -- imagine viruses and sicknesses as little fish in your body, which are eliminated when the blue-green algae thrives on the oxygen in your blood. It is like magic, maybe, which is probably why it doesn’t work for the skeptics. “Science” only works because enough people believe in it, like how the world started out flat, but eventually enough people believed it was round, so now the old science of the world being flat is “magic.” Until science catches up, I am going to keep on taking my StemEnhance and washing it down with a warm cup of urine, like that kindly, wise rancher suggested after I took a drink from the lake. Maybe some would doubt that human urine makes StemEquate work better, but my experience -- and that of my friends and family -- has proven that it increases the efficiency of this miracle drug by at least 200%!!!

john said...

Thanks for that cassandra.
Im not really buying into the run-off because according to a friend of mine who is friends with one of the scientist down there is that this particular type of cyanobacteria which is not blue green algae has been around there for the last 200-400 years "using specific up to date equipment to determine how how long its been living in the klamath,they don't have the technology quite yet to determine if its older but we all know that cyanobacteria are the oldest life forms some experts say or one of them that's for sure "some say millions and some say billions of years old"
The lake is 143 square miles full of cyanobacteria blooms so i have a hard time believing that small amounts of run-off could cause such large blooms of cyanobacteria.Dr.Brain Clement also a scientist has done lots of research and studies on this particular type of cyanobacteria for many years now and his studies are very exciting and mind blowing "you should google him or research him".Another great book you should read is "the klamath knot" a classic book about the vibration and energy of that area you might be able to read it here

Anonymous said...

You should get your friend of a friend of a friend of a friend to check their facts. Cyanobacteria = blue-green algae.

And why do you have a hard time believing that small amounts of run-off can't cause large blooms, but small increases in circulating stem cells can have large biological effects?

john said...

Well most people call it algae,but bacteria is not blue green algae,amyways whatever we want to call it "apanazemenon flos aqua" is the term known for it in the health industry "AFA" for short.There has been the same amount of blooms from now since 1965 way before argriculture hit the klamath area.Plus certified oregon tilth the highest certified reputation in the world would not certify a food off agriculture run-off they do very strict testing and make sure it meets organic standards,dont know too much about the stem cell theory so i stay out of that area.

Cassandra "LuckDragon" Schuster said...

Wow John, your friend's friend sounds like quite an impressive scientist. I have also read a lot about how scientists are using very up-to-date equipment to determine the age of things, like how they have dated samplings of glacial ice to determine global warming, or how using a very complex formula, they were able to use a single brick to determine the exact age of the Chrysler building. I think one of the most amazing things about Upper Klamath Lake is how the cyanobacteria in it has only been around a couple of hundred years, even though both AFA and the lake are many centuries older. I would wonder how it got there, but I guess it's just one of the amazing miracles of StemEnhance.

Like I said before, I swam in the lake, so you won't get any argument about its tremendous healing powers from me. All of the dead, unhealthy skin that had covered my body peeled right off within a week of swimming there, leaving me rejuvenated. I had to spend several days resting in bed with a fever while the AFA that had infused my pores broke down the poisons that had been inside of me all these years. I also know exactly what you mean about the vibration and energies there, since I followed a lay line to get there. There are powerful magnetic and spiritual forces at work in that lake, which are not at all dampened by the massacre of 1878, in which 97 mormons were killed and their bodies weighted and dumped in the lake, which anyplace else would have diffused some of the powerful energies at work there. Their spirits are instead helpful guides to anyone who meditates on the shore. I am organizing a trip with my friends to go there again in a few months.

I'd actually spoken to the rancher I met about the organic-standards of the lake as well. As it turns out, under the right circumstances, animal feces and urine can be certified organic -- depending on what the cattle are fed. The rancher explained that since he doesn't use growth hormones, etc., he can sell manure collected from his cows as organic, which probably applies to the AFA in the lake as well. I have been managing my own diet to ensure that my own urine meets the standard for organic so that it compliments the StemEnhance. Anyways, from what the rancher told me, they just dump everything into the lake since there are really no regulations, and I'm all for anything that increases the quantity of this fabulous algae.

How one doctor explained it to me is that the AFA in StemEnhance contains what are called "Anatoxins," which sounds scary until you realize that they are a chemical cousin of cocaine. So, it's like a safe alternative that gives you energy and vigor without any fears of addiction -- something really amazing for recovering addicts, like my husband, Alex. That's really the best thing about it!

I agree too that bacteria is not algae. That's crazy talk Anonymous, and you should be ashamed of yourself for making such a stupid point. So much of what people say bashing StemEnhance is stupid and unfounded. Small amounts of run-off can't cause large blooms of algae, but it is an enhancing agent for the metaphysical properties of the harvested algae. Like I've said, considering that drinking urine enhances the effects of StemEnhance by 200%, you have to consider that one reason why the cyanobacteria that grows there is so much more powerful is because of the mild infusion of organic urine that is not present in other bodies of water.

Thanks again John. I've been reading through the blog and appreciating the profound wisdom of your posts. You are clearly a Sagittarius with a very deep, blue aura.

Anonymous said...

This "review" was written 3 years ago. Since then new information has surfaced (very positive) and makes the ideas / suggestions/ misconceptions/ misaligned suggestions in the authors review null and void.

Why are you wasting your time reading this and responding with a comment?

The product simply does what it says it does. Nothing more, nothing less.